[svlug] with heavy heart, and a sigh - take II

[stripes]

I'm showing my support.

Stop it. 

-Anne

On Sun, Sep 16, 2007 at 07:31:19PM -0700, William Teeple wrote:
> I have been part of this distribution list and community for only 1  
> 1/2 years - so I will not pretend to understand the complexities of  
> your relationships.
> 
> But the short story is this.
> 
> This mailing list is for the Silicon Valley Linux Users Group.  It  
> should pertain to matters of LINUX - not personal feuds or fights -  
> not organizational fights or struggles.  I suggest you all take this  
> offline from this distribution list or please create a new  
> distribution list for SVLUG-POLITICS or SVLUG-FEUDS or something like  
> that.
> 
> I am sure my response will warrant a discussion and explanation from  
> the parties involved - but if you do - please reply just to me and  
> not the list.
> 
> HOWEVER - if anyone in the group (besides me) is tired of these  
> attacks and lack of discussions of LINUX then I urge you all to show  
> your support for ending these flame wars and reply to the list to  
> show your support.
> 
> Cheers,
> Bill
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Sep 16, 2007, at 5:06 PM, Heather Stern wrote:
> 
> >
> >   I understand now what Rick Moen's friendship has been worth -  
> > what he
> >   will choose to see of things that I say, and what he will tell  
> > himself
> >   in order to paint himself in the best possible light, and more
> >   importantly, what he will manage to say when he knows that I have  
> > stepped
> >   away to be involved with a conference for some short while.
> >
> > There is a man named Ian, whom Mr.Moen hates approximately as much as
> > tornados hate mobile homes, give or take a post office.*   I believe
> > that Mr.Moen is utterly incapable of sanity or reason when it comes to
> > any mention of this man.  In the name of supporting his favorite  
> > dose of
> > unreason, he will say and paint absolutely anything.  It is a true  
> > thing
> > that Ian kicked him off a list last year - before various bylaws were
> > changed and how who rules what happens, the president alone could  
> > do that.
> > For the same sorts of poison as he's spent on the Picnic this year, he
> > spent last time, and the methods have been different for the rules  
> > have
> > been different too.   This year, the president can't do things alone.
> > He doesn't like that either... this year's president would have  
> > been as
> > unfairly kind to him as last year's might have been unfairly  
> > critical and
> > it's all a complete wash because the actual group of individuals,  
> > several,
> > that were making things happen, made a decision that neither the  
> > machine
> > admins nor the glorified President chose to override, and which the  
> > active
> > Coordinator for the year supported.
> >
> > * Yes, I'm aware that forces of electricity and wind have no  
> > emotions.  The
> >   destruction comes naturally.   This doesn't make it good.
> >
> > Principles that I honor and he does not don't make either "side"  
> > evil -
> > merely differemt.  If those differences are inescapably  
> > incompatible, then
> > someone's not going to like the results.
> >
> >    Fancy how he ended up on the list for the current year, no problem
> >    being aboard, as long as he could enjoy his presence there he was a
> >    happy go lucky guy.   (Apparently not.  Excuse me,  my cat is  
> > laughing
> >    at me.)
> >
> >    It is the active abuse of people getting work done this year,  
> > carefully
> >    done on other lists in order that he could enjoy rules-lawyer  
> > status on
> >    the picnix group itself, however, that actually got him a *fresh  
> > request*
> >    for removal!  From someone besides his arch nemesis even.  And then
> >    there was a vote.  My golly, we're so evil I could just piss blood!
> >
> > Odin's rules allow you to eat the high horse you ride in on, as  
> > Sleipner
> > awakens anew, to face the morn.
> >
> >    I believe I prefer the tabula rasa.  I do not know this man, have
> >    not met him.  There is some rumor that he's kind of well known  
> > around
> >    the group.  There's some mild bits of evidence around the  
> > volunteers
> >    list that he's actually helpful now and then.  I wonder if he'll
> >    ever show up at a meeting.
> >
> >    I will not any longer ever read his email, however.  There's this
> >    unfortunate jackalhead who looks just like him and occasionally  
> > makes
> >    all these bollixed up statements about how un-communitylike I am.
> >
> > I will no longer play any Queen Of The Hive games with Mr.Moen no  
> > matter how
> > many bees he brings to help me play.  Any of you who are my  
> > friends, if you
> > catch me reacting to him, please do me the kindness of distracting  
> > me by
> > asking if I have eaten lately.  I may be short on sodium and not  
> > thinking
> > straight.
> >
> > Whenever I meet new people, I will hope for friendship, let the  
> > world bring
> > what it may.
> >
> > Life must go on.   Brie needs to be working sooner, not later;  the  
> > old
> > server that SVLUG's living on may as well be named swiss-cheese  
> > instead
> > of gruyere considering how stable it's been lately.  I understand  
> > there's
> > some guy named Rick who has been bailing the old tub with his own  
> > bucket to
> > keep it afloat.  Serious work and good attitude deserves support.   
> > I have too
> > much work to do and this day has spare enough time to try to do  
> > some of it.
> >
> > As Karsten would say, Peace.
> >
> >   . | .    Heather Stern          |     (408) 374-7623 land
> > --->*<---  star at starshine.org   - * -   (408) 761-4912 cell
> >   ' | `    KG6ZYC                 |
> >
> > . . . . . . .
> >
> > Exact reason for phone call:
> >    To expect to have a human conversation with a friend, instead of  
> > fancy
> >    formal emails with "the list-admins" - I felt he might be  
> > interested in
> >    the whole reasons, the discussion, the wheres and whys, after  
> > all, this
> >    is Rick, he loves to know details.
> >
> > The details I would gladly give to him over a cup of black coffee  
> > included
> > the following points, but there were two phone calls.  The first  
> > concluded
> > abruptly on his end when he decided he'd get back on the list;  he  
> > didn't
> > seem++ to actually *want* the explanation he'd demanded - just the  
> > result he'd
> > wanted.  I have the power to put someone back on a mailing list,  
> > but the
> > reasons are important, and the timing of me calling a Food Shelter  
> > before
> > their front-daytime office closed had some effect on the timing of  
> > calls I
> > was going to be making.
> >
> > ++emphasis: seem.  I have no idea what Rick wants anymore :(
> >
> > Duncaan MacKinnon is (and remains til everyone finishes turning in  
> > their
> > reciepts and/or a few months pass and someone else with a cheery heart
> > steps up to the plate - look out for the lightning rod, it's a doozy)
> > the picnix Coordinator, but he knew he couldn't always be at hand.
> > There's a Picnic Steering Committee, which has been mentioned on that
> > Picnix list he doesn't read until Friday before the picnic.  There are
> > a handful of people on it;  either I or Ian could have been outvoted
> > easily... if there was dissension.
> >
> > There was *some* dissension, but it was in the meat of why and what  
> > to do.
> >
> > THe decision of the Committee, as spurred more than three emails in
> > private to the list-admins at some days distance before, was that
> > Rick's personal attacks on other group mailing lists (not just SVLUG),
> > of both the Picnic itself and of some of its most visible  
> > volunteers, was
> > sufficient to violate the List Netiquette policy against personal  
> > attack
> > and dead-horse topics;  that his presence made willing and active  
> > volunteers
> > distinctly uncomfortable and if he spoke to the list were likely to  
> > prevent
> > real work from being done.
> >
> > I really do find myself wondering that if I had been as formal
> > myself as his request was, and said only that, if his reply would
> > have been to take it like a netizen and run off to other things,
> > satisfied that the Law was being followed.   My suspicion is no.
> >
> > I am one of the votes in the Committee;  I am the one who knows  
> > everyone's
> > phone numbers.  Because some of the mails were private, we had to  
> > bounce
> > them at each other.  I had several reasons for my own vote:
> >     * we've been asked to help out our volunteers, give them a  
> > comfortable
> >       environment to work in.  Having been asked, the question  
> > cannot be
> >       left alone, it must be answered.
> >     * Rick has oft expressed that he's not a volunteer to the Picnic.
> >       Sometimes this has been in good cheer;  often it has not.  My  
> > best
> >       guess *was* that he is either bored or annoyed with it.  Rick  
> > has
> >       been a friend of mine;  boredom he can handle in silence on  
> > his own;
> >       annoying my friends is not something I actually like to do -  
> > if he
> >       found involvement with the Picnix so annoying as to stir his  
> > blood
> >       so, he'd be happier gone from it.
> >
> > This was where my reasoning began, with compassion.  What I got to  
> > say on
> > the phone was much shorter - he grew angry -
> >
> >     * if he stays he would either be silent or he would not.  If he  
> > were
> >       dropped, he'd be silent and probably unhappy.  Happier?   
> > Unhappier?
> >       There are all the linuxer who *are* helping, who are already  
> > unhappy.
> >       There's only so much I can do for my friends - helping them  
> > make a
> >       lot of people actively unhappy doesn't score well in it.   
> > Sorry Rick,
> >       but that's the way it scores.
> >
> > Regret at causing anyone pain would have given me the energy to  
> > come up
> > with an amiable solution, probably including lying to myself that he
> > couldn't do much damage on a list that was only going to have traffic
> > for about 6 to 8 hours longer in the current year anyway.   I know  
> > now,
> > that it would have been a lie even if I believed it - he's done plenty
> > enough without being on it at all.
> >
> >     * I'd asked him personally to actually help make things work  
> > rather than
> >       complain about it before;  Duncan, entirely seperately, asked  
> > him that
> >       too.
> >
> > You've seen what flamage that was worth.  Rick moans of "groups  
> > kicked out"
> > but perhaps he means "CABAL kicked out" because he answered hell-no  
> > rather
> > than merely no and stomped off loudly of his own accord.   This speaks
> > nothing to other groups Duncan attended and encouraged volunteers  
> > from.
> >
> > Other voters had their own reasons.
> >
> > If my own vote had been geesh you guys, just give the viking a break,
> > he's just being loud again and doing any specific thing will cause
> > a specific hassle;  it wouldn't have won over.  The vote was a group
> > decision;  the larger group was being hurt by his not-local actions,
> > and the request was to prevent him causing local pain on an active  
> > list.
> >
> > No, we don't - and didn't - kick off every non-volunteer.   Only  
> > the one
> > whose efforts to anti-volunteer cause such pain that action was  
> > directly
> > requested.  Think of it in the same vein as IRC's /IGNORE.   In the  
> > same
> > spirit as that, most people don't get to learn how many IRC clients  
> > have
> > actually *used* the IGNORE command and utterly plonked their text  
> > forever.
> >
> > Silence about it was because we figured he'd just turn every nearby
> > place into a stinkpot.  I actually argued this point; if he really
> > was as utterly uninterested in the Picnix workings as he'd loudly been
> > swearing much earlier in the year, he would never even notice.  And I
> > actually believed Rick's claim of disinterest.  If he *honestly*  
> > had no
> > interest - nobody would hear a damn word about it anyway.  The best of
> > all possible worlds.  Burgers ahoy.
> >
> > I believed in his honesty.
> >
> > He was not honestly disinterested after all - only almost.  But he  
> > didn't
> > notice until the Friday before it.
> >
> > And he did, indeed, turn SVLUG's list into a stinkpot about it.
> >
> > In a sense of friendship, I would have restored his access to the  
> > email
> > archives, let him read all he wants.  The exact vote was to prevent  
> > him from
> > abusing the *active* volunteers on the list *they* share to get  
> > work done.
> > It's almost lucky that some of the work is across irc and most of  
> > it was
> > across phone calls.
> >
> > If in speaking to him I could have believed that he really wanted to
> > seriously volunteer a specific effort, I honestly think that I  
> > might have
> > put him back on the list in whole.   It would have been an abuse of  
> > the
> > group decision, but I probably would have managed to convince  
> > myself if
> > he was gentle enough that I believed we'd done him ill - and that I  
> > was
> > doing better rather than worse by the Picnic itself, for encouraging,
> > rather than discouraging, a friendly sense of actual community.  At  
> > that
> > moment I hadn't seen the flamage he'd already raised about it on here;
> > I only had his voice on the phone to guide my sense of what he wanted.
> >
> > It only occurs to me much later, that he never asked in good cheer,  
> > hey I
> > fell off the list, could you put me back on?  There was good cheer  
> > that
> > day - when he decided he'd won his prize - and he hung up before I  
> > could
> > tell him anything more.  I never get to say all of what I intend in  
> > person.
> > It's my curse.   In email I can say it all and I'm sure the world  
> > makes it
> > a blur past paragraph three.
> >
> > It's the same button that blocks one from mailing and blocks one from
> > rejoining;  I'm sure these can be split, but also so can the  
> > reading of
> > archives.
> >
> > I'd never intended that he not be able to view, and had said so,  
> > but I guess
> > he heard what he wanted to hear.  He thought he'd have everything  
> > just the
> > way he wanted again spot-quick.
> >
> > The purpose of my second phone call was to mention that he'd have  
> > archive
> > access at the end of my workday, after I'd reached the shelter  
> > offices and
> > dug my not-often used admin passwords out of the corner I leave  
> > them in.
> > I'm sorry but my brain hasn't had rote-memory that's all that good  
> > since
> > I was about 16; it got burned out.  I don't know how many of you  
> > remember
> > more than two passwords at a time - I can't remember phone numbers  
> > well
> > enough to finish writing them down, and that day, I was writing a LOT
> > of phone numbers down.   The purpose of this waste of time instead of
> > jumping to his beck and call?   To make sure that any perishables left
> > after a wonderful 400+ linuxer picnic, give or take some random kids,
> > cousins, and spouses, would afterwards go to a proper Shelter.
> >
> > Not only was it *not* a waste of my time, but the shelter which  
> > accepted
> > the food could actually refrigerate and serve the food to people they
> > house directly.  The sorts of poor that got the remainder, are the
> > sorts who will find themselves apartments again once their insurance
> > for burned homes and so on goes through.   That's *real* community -
> > and that shelter expressed a very fervent wish that more big events
> > would care the same to not waste what's still useful.
> >
> > I *needed* to prevent a recurrance of the worst fiasco we had for  
> > cleanup
> > last year, and I had to do it a lot sooner than I had to tussle with a
> > password on a mailing list.  I felt it would be the honourable  
> > thing to tell
> > him that his results weren't going to be instant.
> >
> > Bad move.
> >
> > When he wouldn't actually participate in the give and take,  
> > question and
> > answer that makes up a normal conversation on the phone, and his voice
> > was racing, raising in pitch, and growing louder, I knew with a  
> > sinking
> > feeling and growing panick that he had no interest in knowing the rest
> > of anythign about why, what, or helping flip a burger, nor was he  
> > making
> > any rational effort to ask good sense of me, convince nor cajole nor
> > offer anything of goodwill whatsoever.   I'd had my misgivings on my
> > vote;  I was now forced to admit that the arguments of some of the  
> > rest
> > among the crew were right - at least at that moment they certainly  
> > were.
> > He was no longer himself.  He was too busy flipping out.  I quailed  
> > and
> > I did not expect that anything I could say any longer would be heard
> > by him.  (That's his *no comment* - I never said "no comment" like the
> > stupid talking heads say to the Press.   I tried to ask him something
> > that would drop him out of his broken-record attack, and maybe help me
> > understand why he was going so goddamn ballistic.  Waste of breath.)
> > I fled his increasing volume and anger.  If he had been in person I  
> > don't
> > know what I would have done... I probably would have let him pummel me
> > senseless... there is something in me that will not easily defend  
> > myself
> > from the anger of a friend, that finds it difficult to speak in the  
> > face
> > of such anger even if I thought I should.
> >
> > But there was no way in hell I was going to let him put that brimstone
> > on our list with a halfday left to go and way too much work to do. 6
> > or 7 people were doing an awful lot, a few others doing a bit, and  
> > many
> > others had promised merely to arrive early with ready hands.   A  
> > couple
> > of project groups already had their internal plans what to do and  
> > where
> > to show up, they had their own lists for those things though.
> >
> > The exact text of how I hung up was an If/Then statement.  Good
> > programmers know that If/Then statements imply an Else clause, if one
> > wishes to write one in.   That text was, with a dull ache:
> > 	If you need to hate me, then we're done.  *click*
> >
> > Having left me no avenue to the kindness of friendship, I was left  
> > with the
> > painful chore of President, Sbay;  to enforce the decisions of the  
> > picnix
> > committee and the later approval by its coordinator of what had  
> > been done.
> > I swore when I took up the elected role that some of the things I  
> > had to do
> > would just plain earn me no thanks, and this is one of them.    
> > Tomato me as
> > you will; no change was made to the list status.
> >
> > Paul Reiber knows how I was immediately afterwards, because he was  
> > my next
> > phone call;  I feared how I can or can't be part of the hardware- 
> > volunteer
> > work I do for SVLUG, if I have to face this.   I will do no less  
> > for SVLUG
> > than I always have done for anyone - my best, when I can.   But it  
> > hurt so
> > damn badly.
> >
> > I did the greatest good, for the most linuxfolk, and it wasn't good  
> > enough,
> > and maybe never will be.  I wept.
> >
> > I don't deserve to be hated; not for a moment.
> >
> > I think he doesn't hate *me* - or he would say this - but he  
> > doesn't grant
> > me any credit at all for being any sort of positive force in Sbay.   
> > What I
> > feel is something else again.  I can't even express it.  His  
> > presumption to
> > rule the lives of people he swears up-down-and-sideways no  
> > affiliation nor
> > membership with...
> >
> > If Rick needs to hate Sbay, that's too damn bad for him.
> >
> > If there'd been no money left from last year there'd have been no need
> > to have it lying about in an account somewhere.   There was remaining
> > money because the companies who think they're part of what makes Linux
> > cool, threw a few extra bucks worth of enthusiasm in.  That enthusiasm
> > came from the efforts of the coordinators and friendly volunteers to
> > make things work.  If there'd been no money left last year I'm sure
> > someone would have started raising ire about what wastrels everyone  
> > was,
> > that there should be ways to carry things over, that things are wrong
> > and someone must fall to blame.
> >
> > Sbay's Treasurer has been excurciatingly careful to make sure any  
> > funds
> > donated tagged for the Picnic are used for the picnic *only* - that  
> > funds
> > dinated tagged for specific other things are used for those other  
> > purposes
> > *only*.   Rick has throughout the year, regarding Sbay, merely been
> > excruciating.
> >
> > You'd think it was his ex-wife or something.
> >
> > I do *not* think Justin's care and Jennifer's fervency to defend the
> > honour of that money for the bay area Linux community have been a  
> > waste.
> > Yes, there have been people who looked at the pot and thought they  
> > could
> > spend it on other things.  It was not allowed.  Their wails did not  
> > gain
> > them the abuse they desired either.   Wailing louder got it noticed  
> > as a
> > desire for abuse.
> >
> > Abusing people who are actually getting work done isn't cool.
> >
> > When a cloud of blame and fear exists there is no possibility of  
> > compassion.
> > Nobody wins.
> >
> > The one *real* thing that was wasted last year - Henry's efforts to  
> > bring
> > Davis' contribution of all the burgers we could enjoy - the huge  
> > pile of
> > leftover food - wasn't wasted this year.  Or more accurately,  I  
> > prevented
> > the same fate for any of this year's leftovers.  I made sure the  
> > drygoods
> > he'd been custodian to all year got down here too.
> >
> > If individual penguins from three big LUGs and maybe a few little ones
> > (people werent required to affiliate with a LUG just to help out),
> > some opensource wireless group (that a few of you might recognize),
> > a couple of big projects and a few little ones, about half of whom
> > never even heard of Sbay since it wasn't mentioned on the picnic  
> > flyers
> > mailed to LUGs, throwing a damn fine picnic is a bad thing - well, I
> > said before that I'd eat my red hat if people had no fun at the  
> > Picnic.
> > It's just a freakin' symbol.  It's just a freakin' picnic.
> >
> > That was Duncan's specific guiding mantra for this year's effort,  
> > after
> > reading the last few years' worth of notes about how they'd been run,
> > aground or otherwise, and his memories of the one he'd been part of:
> > 	It's just a freakin' Picnic, ok?
> >
> > *I* think it turned out a good Picnic.  I *know* that lots of you  
> > helped.
> >
> > Folks who'd like any donation-thanks or reimbursements for their  
> > contribs
> > to this year, or any donation-thanks for helping deal with the Food- 
> > Cant-Get
> > Past-Four-Traffic-Jams fandango from last year, catch me or any of the
> > LinuxPicnic core people seperately.   Since the 501c3 status came in
> > positive the thank-yous are worth something in paper form, provided  
> > you and
> > your accountant care about such things.
> >
> > If, by any chance, Rick doesn't need to hate me, nor the projects I've
> > poured love and life into, nor the many orgs and groups and  
> > companies I
> > do anything volunteerish for, then the rest is the future, unwritten.
> > Which, to my mind, is how it should be.
> >
> > But I will *not* give up my honour* -nor that of Sbay- for the sake  
> > of one
> > phonecall worth of a wail from anyone.  I did what I must for the sake
> > of the greatest goodwill, and I have failed, my friends, in preventing
> > all possible ill will or sorrow.
> >
> > I genuinely considered never saying anything to this - typing it all,
> > and hitting delete.   But I don't deserve what's been done to me,  
> > Justin
> > doesn't deserve the crap he gets given for agreeing to be a mailing
> > address, and the Org that elected me has somewhere around 60 people  
> > that
> > don't deserve the sliming that's been offered it.  The other cry  
> > raised
> > against it, that it was Sbay's picnic only and not run by the real  
> > linux
> > folk of the Bay - I can hardly see how, for only the Linuxers among  
> > Sbay
> > came, as many not-from-Sbay showed up early to help unload trucks, and
> > then everyone else arrived.
> >
> > I *will* defend the people who get real work done in my crews, for  
> > any type
> > of event I am part of, and it has got not one goddamn thing to do  
> > with how
> > manay badgenames or group affiliations they hang off of their own hat.
> >
> > There are some among you who pitched in driving, who pitched in  
> > buying the
> > raw goods, who helped move stuff, who helped defend the pristine  
> > honour of
> > the Vegetarian Grill.  You deserve everyone's thanks and good  
> > cheer.  You
> > earned it.  Am I any more or less than any of you?  No - I show up,  
> > I do my
> > part, it's worth nothing alone.
> >
> > Do I honestly deserve bricks and bruises instead?
> >
> > I know that there are friends of mine who will see what I've written
> > and be horrified that I actually graced this thread with my  
> > attention to
> > it; don't feed the fire, don't touch that stove, you'll burn yourself.
> > I have even promised that I would not allow myself to burn out in all
> > these things that I do.  But I have to be myself, be real, and what  
> > has
> > been painted of me, and of Sbay.... excuse me,
> >      THE SOUTH BAY COMMUNITY NETWORK, INCORPORATED
> > (pesky state forms.  Don't *even* get me started.  The next person
> > to claim it's really easy to file a nonprofit gets a soak in the dunk
> > tank) ...is not real - it is merely what one man not getting his way
> > wanted to see of me - and Sbay - and needed to paint.  If someone tags
> > a car, you don't leave it that way.  You clean up, you stand up,  
> > and you
> > keep on doing what's right until the battle that should never have  
> > been
> > necessary in the first place goes away forever.
> >
> > I'ev heard it said that the fights in nonprofits are so bitter  
> > because the
> > stakes are so low.
> >
> > I don't care anymore if it's something besides hate that makes him  
> > need to
> > paint it.  I just need whatever mold this ooze is, to stop growing  
> > before I
> > get enough allergic reaction to find myself in hospital,  
> > metaphorically
> > speaking.   The sliming has to stop.
> >
> > I will throw the past I know of Rick away utterly rather than make any
> > guess what to expect of him any more.  Tabula rasa.
> >
> > -* Heather
> > * extra u's in honour and honourable brought to you courtesy of a  
> > sack of
> >   u's from HantsLUG, that they gave me some years ago.  They have a  
> > meet
> >   once a month called a Bring-A-Box which is very much like our
> >   installfests.  I've been to exactly one of them, unless you count  
> > all
> >   the times I've made it to one on IRC.  Webcams are cool things!
> >
> > . . . . . . . . . .
> >
> > I wrote:
> >
> >> Thank you, Anne.  I've inquired with the three mailing list admins,
> >> pointing out that I've always carefully followed the posted rules 
> >> [1] on
> >> both the main linuxpicnic and announce mailing lists, and asking for
> >> an explanation.  (My address was apparently silently removed and  
> >> banned
> >> from _both_ mailing lists, at some point in the recent past.)
> >>
> >> [1] http://www.linuxpicnic.org/twiki/bin/view/Volunteers/ 
> >> MailListEtiquette
> >
> >
> > After two e-mails, one to the suggested list-admin at linuxpicnic.org
> > contact address, and a second follow-up to the admins' direct e-mail
> > mailbox, Heather's eventual e-mailed explanation about why I was
> > summarily removed and banned without notice from _both_ the  
> > linuxpicnic
> > and announce mailing list was that I mentioned not intending to be a
> > picnic volunteer this year, and therefore she figured I'd "probably be
> > either bored or annoyed" by seeing further mailing list traffic,  
> > and for
> > that reason she had removed and banned me without notice to spare me
> > from being "annoyed" because, she says, "I'm not interested in  
> > annoying
> > my friends."
> >
> > I asked whether _all_ subscribers who aren't picnic volunteers get
> > summarily removed and banned, preventing them from seeing new postings
> > _and_ from visiting the back-postings archives, of both the discussion
> > list and the ultra-low-traffic announce list -- or just me.
> >
> > A half-hour later, Heather telephoned me and reiterated her
> > doesn't-make-sense-to-me explanation about "helping" me avoid being
> > "bored and annoyed".  I repeated that I was confused by this.  She  
> > also
> > said the banning part was "accidental".  I said this confused me, too.
> > Anyway, after being assured that I wasn't worried about being  
> > "bored and
> > annoyed", she said she'd undo the removal and the "accidental" ban.
> >
> > A few minutes later, she called back a second time and said she'd  
> > taken
> > the removal and banning action "to make a lot of people happy", and
> > would not "find time" to take corrective action until quite a few days
> > from now.
> >
> > I called her attention to the fact that her justifications were
> > nonsensical and transparent.  She declined to comment on the fact that
> > I'd not violated any of the posted mailing list rules and that
> > apparently people get banned for violating unwritten ones.  She  
> > said she
> > guessed I'd "hate" her, and hung up.
> >
> > So, there ya go.
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > svlug mailing list
> > svlug at lists.svlug.org
> > http://lists.svlug.org/lists/listinfo/svlug
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> svlug mailing list
> svlug at lists.svlug.org
> http://lists.svlug.org/lists/listinfo/svlug
> 

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