[svlug] RH dependencies, not using up2date

Marc MERLIN marc_news at merlins.org
Sat Dec 1 10:44:02 PST 2007 

[Cced at your personal Email address, in case you're not at RH
anymore]

On Sat, Jul 27, 2002 at 09:46:02PM -0700, Isaiah Weiner wrote:
> > The joke is that it needs to connect to Red Hat to do just about
> > anything.  I am not really  interested in the service RH sells  and what
> > up2date offers on the web server and remote admin side (mind you, I'm not
> > saying up2date is useless, or that  one would be silly  to pay RH for the
> > service, I'm saying that  I don't  need it  and I  don't  want/need to
> > use up2date  to keep  my machines in sync)
> > 
> > up2date will not use my local  resources (well, not without some non
> > obvious mods and commands). I haven't spent too much time looking yet,
> > but so far,
> 
>     So it sounds like you should file a RFE against up2date, then.  I'm
> sure Adrian would take it seriously and has probably already thought about
> implementing it.

I thought I'd give you guys 5 years to fix this, which is more than
generous, but nothing ever happened to it:
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=70001
Of course, I care much anymore since I haven't used Red Hat in about that
long, and migrated a few thousand Red Hat machines to Ubuntu last chance I
got.

It's too bad that Red Hat made a few such bad decisions, because it really
was the best distro from maybe 12 years to 7-6 years ago, but due to
several seriously lacking features like proper dependency tracking,
lack of dpkg-divert divert equivalent, non sane config file handling over
debian's "keep my files always" or "install yours always", and of course for
many years, having a mere tenth of the fully integrated and working together
packages that debian had, Red Hat has mostly become irrelevant for people
who know better.
And this is coming from one of your former biggest fans.

Sorry,
Marc

PS: BTW, I actually wanted for you to prove me wrong and make me eat my
words, really...

(context left below since I don't expect anyone to remember 5+ years later)

On Sat, Jul 27, 2002 at 08:56:56PM -0700, Marc MERLIN wrote:
> On Sat, Jul 27, 2002 at 02:20:50PM -0700, Isaiah Weiner wrote:
> > On Thu, Jul 25, 2002 at 02:11:51PM -0700, Marc MERLIN wrote:
> > > - rpm still doesn't have the option to auto pull dependencies in obvious
> > > cases (i.e rpm -i file.rpm, where all the dependencies are in the same
> > > dir)
> > 
> >     I don't see it in bugzilla.  When did you file it?
>  
> We both know that's a troll.
> 
> We also both  know what'd happen if I  were to open a bug on  that (and mind
> you, if you  check marc_soft @ merlins.org in bugzilla,  you'll see that I'm
> not shy about  reporting bugs & fixes,  and bugzilla does not  even list the
> bugs from your  two previous bug systems, going back  to bugs at redhat.com for
> RH 2.02 about 7  years ago or so. There is lots of packages  in RH that have
> code from me, and the amanda package you  ship is pretty much the one I gave
> you, unless it's been updated recently)
> 
> But to  answer your question, I've  asked RH folks  I know on more  than one
> occasion, and they've  told me that it's not  the job of RPM to  do that (in
> all  fairness, dpkg  on  debian doesn't  do that  either,  but they  provide
> apt-get, so it doesn't matter)
>  
> > > - up2date is a joke
> > >   [root at localhost RPMS]# up2date -i redhat-config-network
> > >   Error Message:
> > >     Free service limited due to high load, please try again later (server 1001059607)
> > >   Error Class Code: 51
> > 
> >     I can understand your frustration, but I'm not sure how it differs from
> > a slashdotted website, or an FTP site with too many users, nor how it makes
> > the client a "joke."  Maybe some new jargon.
>  
> The joke is that it needs to connect to Red Hat to do just about anything.
> I am not really  interested in the service RH sells  and what up2date offers
> on the web server and remote admin side (mind you, I'm not saying up2date is
> useless, or that  one would be silly  to pay RH for the  service, I'm saying
> that  I don't  need it  and I  don't  want/need to  use up2date  to keep  my
> machines in sync)
> 
> up2date will not use my local  resources (well, not without some non obvious
> mods and commands). I haven't spent too much time looking yet, but so far,
> 
> I haven't found documentation on how to use up2date to do the following:
> - install a package and all its dependencies, using the packages that I
>   have on disk or a local ftp/http server
> - doing something like this:
>   # up2date --whatprovides=libcapplet.so.0
>   control-center-1.4.0.1-31
> _without_ connecting to Red Hat.
> 
> Mind you, I'm  not set on using  up2date, I'd be happy to  use anything, but
> none of  the other tools  seem to really be  doing the job  that well/easily
> either.
> 
> Going back to "joke",  sure the word was a bit harsh, but  I was dead in the
> water  for the  afternoon while  setting up  my first  (master) server  in a
> company, because you happened to release a glibc package that day.
> I understand about  the slashdot effect, but I didn't  want to be connecting
> to your  servers and  pulling from  you for what  I was  doing in  the first
> place.
>  
> > > - dependencies still suck.
> > >   [root at localhost RPMS]# rpm -i redhat-config-network-1.0.0-1.i386.rpm
> > >   gnome-core-1.4.0.4-54.i386.rpm libgnomeprint15-0.35-4.i386.rpm
> > >   rep-gtk-gnome-0.15-7.i386.rpm gdk-pixbuf-gnome-0.14.0-8.i386.rpm
> > >   rep-gtk-0.15-7.i386.rpm librep-0.15.1-3.i386.rpm
> > >   pygnome-libglade-1.4.2-3.i386.rpm pygtk-libglade-0.6.9-3.i386.rpm
> > >   libglade-0.17-5.i386.rpm sawfish-1.0.1-9.i386.rpm
> 
> I spent  more than 30mn  tracking the dependencies  for a few  packages like
> this (by hand, since I couldn't use up2date)
> 
> > >    How  am  I   supposed  to  know  that  libcapplet.so.0   comes  from  the
> > >    control-center package?
> > 
> >     If you have the rpmdb-redhat package you would be able to use
> > --redhatprovides option, as detailed in usage message for rpm.
>  
> I will try that, thank you.
>  
> > > My question is simple:
> > > How can I install  RH packages (not contrib) with the  dependencies in a way
> > > that actually works (and  I want to be able to say where  my packages are, I
> > > don't want to pull them from some random place on the net)
> > 
> >     It's not complete, but try getting the latest up2date client errata nd
> > using the nodownload option.  It should sort out the dependencies and give
> > you a list, which you can use to fund your local package installation.
> > Granted, I haven't actually tried it.  Please do file an RFE in bugzilla if
> > you're that concerned with the feature.
> 
> I could look at it, but it looks like I'd be using a hammer on a screw.
> I had resisted looking  at apt-rpm so far since it's  not part of "standard"
> RH, and I was  making an effort to use the "standard"  methods, but it looks
> like it's really the way to go.
> 
> Marc
> -- 
> "A mouse is a device used to point at the xterm you want to type in" - A.S.R.
> Microsoft is to operating systems & security ....
>                                       .... what McDonalds is to gourmet cooking 
> Home page: http://marc.merlins.org/   |   Finger marc_f at merlins.org for PGP key
> 
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-- 
"A mouse is a device used to point at the xterm you want to type in" - A.S.R.
Microsoft is to operating systems & security ....
                                      .... what McDonalds is to gourmet cooking
Home page: http://marc.merlins.org/

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