[svlug] Writing start-up scripts...
dagmar at dsurreal.org
Sun Mar 18 20:45:01 PST 2001
On Sun, 18 Mar 2001, Rick Moen wrote:
> begin Dagmar d'Surreal quotation:
> > Ships with _what_... (rhetorical question)
> After Red Hat Software incorporated the TheNextLevel m4-based desktop
> autoconfigurator (which won its X desktop softare contest), in, what, v.
> 5.0? , and then followed that up with AnotherLevel in more recent
> versions, you may have noticed that it became really difficult to read
> and comprehend one's X setup.
> Since they started doing that, I've had several Linux newcomers ask me
> to explain to them how their new Red Hat desktop configurations worked,
> found that I couldn't, and found that (relative) blessed simplicity
> returns if you bypass those Red Hat-isms using a ~/.xinitrc file.
Welcome to one of the reasons I hate RedHat. Most of their attempts at
advancement create more problems than they solve. I'll have to take your
word on the RedHat X configuration, because my usual solution for those
machines is to nuke it all and rebuild from source and _still_ just run
xf86config. I gave up trying to deal with what they were doing to X
several releases ago.
> > The design goal is _portability_ regardless of platform.
> I honestly can't see the gain in having network configuration files have
> the exact same syntax between Solaris and Linux. However, if I truly
> _did_ need that, I might seek to write wrappers for Linux's ifconfig and
> route functions that accepted Solaris syntax.
So you have no problems with digging through an /etc/netmasks file? :)
> > I do not feel that a system administrator should have to be performing
> > the role of a software developer (even though shell scripts don't
> > require much "development" compared to other languages) when they're
> > configuring a system, and why on earth would one want to go and edit a
> > shell script and run the entire thing twice (or two different ones)
> > when they can invoke just one script with a few simple and obvious
> > arguments to administratively disable an interface or particular
> > features of an interface on demand.
> I fail to see that editing a simple, self-documenting pair of ifconfig
> and route statements is in any way comparable to being a "software
> developer" -- nor that having to contend with a ridiculously baroque
> set of sed and awk invocations to dereference some bizarre ASCII network
> configuration files would be seen as an improvement in that area.
> But, of course, if one's design aims don't include readability, perhaps
> that's not a problem.
You apparently don't have people working with and for you who understand
network architechture, but can't write a shell script. Putting a machine
on a different IP should not require programming skills.
> > Why bother? I'd have to put them back in afterwards.
> No, that's _not_ what I meant. We appear to have miscommunicated. By
> "take them out", I meant disable them, programmatically. And _then_
> "ifconfig ethN down." Much simpler.
> > Not in this case.
> Oh, foo. Try to sell that to some credulous novice, because I'm not
Try dealing with dropping and reconfiguring interfaces while the equipment
in question is in the middle of a crushing DDoS attack. You'll gain new
appreciation for having to conserve every clockcycle possible.
> > Damn, you _are_ incapable of rational debate.
> One cannot help noticing that you conspicuously avoided answering the
> question: Are you insisting on taking a technical discussion personally
> because you _created_ that pile of mush Red Hat ships in lieu of a
> proper network init script? (Not that that would be a good -- let alone
> rational -- reason, but a poor motive is better than none at all.)
I'll enumerate my response in hopes that you'll be able to keep the
various points straight in your head.
1. I am not taking this personally.
2. You opened with a personal insult in this debate, after I stated that I
felt using an /etc/sysconfig directory to store network configuration
information was a reasonable idea.
3. The last time I checked, RedHat was not using any of my code, unless
they shipped an eggdrop rpm in their last set, in which case I am forced
to accept the responsibility of having written a few lines of patches for.
4. Never once did I take credit for anything RedHat has done. ...and don't
even try and blame me for it.
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