[web-team] Re: [Officers] Job corner??

[William R Ward]

Heather Stern writes:
>> >> I think the website needs updating.  It talks of a "job corner" after
>> >> the meetings.  In my experience, after the meetings there's a lot of
>> >> milling about and general hubbub, but otherwise nothing I'd call a
>> >> "job corner".  I suspect this is a tradition that has disappeared.
>> >> 
>> >> With the economy the way it is, perhaps it would be a good idea to
>> >> provide an opportunity for job seekers and offerers to get in contact
>> >> with each other.  The website alludes to an old system where jobs
>> >> could be announced at the beginning of the meeting; perhaps something
>> >> like that would not be a bad idea. 
>> >
>> >We used to, but just can't - there are way too many announcements that
>> >result when job seekers and recruiters get the mike, and it was
>> >occasionally difficult to get them to stop talking and hand it over to
>> >the next one.
>> 
>> OK, here's an idea... each person can submit a sheet of paper
>> describing what it is they are offering/seeking, with a size
>> limitation (subject to further editing if needed).  Instead of handing
>> them the mike, have the MC or someone from the club read these out
>> loud.  After each one, have the person stand and wave so that people
>> who are interested can find them.
> 
>We have enough problem getting the people with the other sorts of
>announcements to reveal themselevs ahead of time... however, it's
>certainly easy to say you don't get job-related announcements without
>it.  Sort of an intelligence test.

I agree.  If you don't plan ahead, you miss your chance.

>(perhaps one of the folk who normally wield the mike before the speaker
>goes up should comment on this possibility.  My own arrival time is too
>vague, unless I'm told ahead of time that I'm the MC for a month you
>cannot expect that it'd be me.)

Good idea.

>> >The result was cutting short of speaker time, when it's the speaker we
>> >all came for.
>> 
>> I agree, but there are a lot of people who have been out of work for
>> way too long...
>> 
>> >> Or, do it the way Bay LISA does,
>> >> and have a whiteboard (or equivalent) where people can write their
>> >> names & contact info and what they do or want.
>> >
>> >The room is too large, has no whiteboard of its own.  I can bring a
>> >portable whiteboard for the purpose, but with the much larger group of
>> >SVLUG, it might take forever or easily overflow.  Sadly, it doesn't
>> >scale well.
>> 
>> OK, then how about designating one of the tables that line the walls
>> as a resume repository.  Tell people to bring copies of their resume
>> and leave them there, and recruiters to bring printouts of their job
>> listings, and people can pick them up as desired.
>
>leads to an easier than average note... Who's going to clean up after them?

Themselves.  If you put resumes on the table, pick up your leftovers.
Otherwise, it's not too hard to shovel the leftovers into the
recycling bin.  I don't think that's an issue.

>> >Doing something to more formally re-establish the Job Corner might help;
>> >I think the main thing that has harmed it is that most of our speakers
>> >run closer to lockup-time than we used to, and then Cisco wants us out,
>> >so using the inside of the room as some more meeting space for a brief 
>> >while doesn't work out.  :(
>> 
>> I agree, but that's a separate issue.
>
>I disagree.
>
>Your complaint is that the Job Corner, such as it is, isn't formal.  I
>expressed what I see as the reason behind that.  In a world of
>requirements, requirements analysis suggests that the way the venue is
>used represents a constraint, or at least other factors in how the
>room works.  If you fail to consider them, you come up with a great
>scheme that in the real world doesn't work that way.
>
>Thus the informal nature of our attempted Job Corners.
>
>> I agree that the speakers all
>> too often run late.  Perhaps this should be addressed as well.  I'm a
>> member of a Toastmasters club and we always have someone whose job it
>> is to keep track of time and indicate when a speaker's time is about
>> to be up (warning), and when it is up.  Perhaps that principle can be
>> adapted to SVLUG.
>
>Maybe.  I leave such matters to the speakers coordinator.  

I agree.  That's why I said it was a separate issue.

>The rest of the principle is getting 200+ gabby techies to stay seated 
>long enough to listen to the after-announcements.  <baylisa hat=on>BayLISA 
>has a bit of problem managing this, and we have a quarter, or less, 
>population to control than SVLUG does.</baylisa>

Well, that's what the door prizes are for, right?  That remins me: can
I offer a half-price discount on a training class as a door prize?

>> >The idea has been raised a few times of having an svlug-jobs@ the way
>> >BayLISA has a baylisa-jobs mailing list.  Disadvantages: It's moderated.
>> >It's highly attractive to spammers.  Recruiters who really recruit, but
>> >just can't restrian themselves from posting more than their fair share,
>> >need to be slapped (kindly at first), and if they remain annoying, blocked.
>> >So it's also a good idea, but it needs an active moderator with time to 
>> >handle it...  who will not disappear on us without commentary as some 
>> >past volunteers have done when life changed for them. (Even if the life 
>> >change itself is for the better - new jobs can do that to folks.)
>> 
>> Another model to look at is the jobs.perl.org and perl-jobs mailing
>> list.  The job listings are posted by recruiters or hiring managers
>> filling out a web form, which is then available on the website and
>> sent out to list subscribers.  There is a team of moderators, but
>> there is very little work involved in moderating it.
> 
>You're saying that they don't accept missives that don't come via the
>web form?

No, but they are a lot more likely to accept them if they do come from
it, since it makes sure that all the relevant details are there.

>> The trouble is that moderating the jobs list is something that is
>> generally not of much interest to most people most of the time.  When
>> you've got a job, it isn't something that matters much.  When you're
>> job hunting, it would be a conflict of interest...
> 
>It need not be.  I'd call it a conflict of interest if they work as a 
>recruiter at a dog-eat-dog recruitment house... but not just because
>someone has a day job, or doesn't.
>
>In my opinion the hardest requirement is that the moderator(s) be
>*reliable* - because job-hunting or hiring are time-bound announcements.
>That makes it harder even than the rag-tag batch of us who watch the 
>officers list for jobs-to-forward.  We chose this method because it's
>a light enough workload that timeliness should be ok.

If the officers list gets overwhelmed then you should delegate it.
Otherwise the current system is probably fine.

>> >Although if someone became "job corner dude" or whatever title he or she
>> >would want, perhaps they could address both tasks a bit.  Unfortunately
>> >when the word got out that they do that for SVLUG, they might get
>> >deluged in even more spam, esp. from morons who think SVLUG can hire
>> >people directly.
>> 
>> That's a concern.  But there's no reason the moderator's identity
>> needs to be made widely available.  If an inquiry is made to the
>> jobs-moderator mail alias, then it would be revealed of course...
>> 
>> >Anyways I have sympathy for the whole job sitch, but we need to come up
>> >with something to do that doesn't create unmanageable extra problems,
>> >or whose extra problems have at least been actively accepted by some
>> >specific, responsible people who'll keep on the ball.  When it's a 
>> >little more clear what that is... I, or Joyce, or someone else among our
>> >webteam (we're working on having a few more, yes) will be glad to update
>> >the job policy webpage again.
>> 
>> To reiterate: I think that the "jobs corner" section should be removed
>> from the website if no effort is to be made to offer such a corner.
>
>I have watched, and I have been the one holding the after-speaker mike
>and announcing that people with this interest gather at a specific place
>in the room.  If you think it's not an offer just 'cuz it has no big
>glossy sign... make a sign.

That's happened once or twice, but not often, lately.  I fully admit
that it probably used to happen every month.

>This is a volunteer organization.  Our only
>pay is thank-yous and an occasional free soda.  But you're welcome to
>be part of the core that makes things better.

Doesn't one have to be elected to do that?

>I don't get the impression that you'd prefer we have no Jobs Corner.

My concern was the inconsistency between the website and the reality
of the meetings, combined with the sympathetic knowledge that lots of
SVLUGgers are still out of work...

>> But given the current market with so many people out of work and so
>> few job openings available, it would be a very useful service to many
>> SVLUG members.  I think the current policies were put in place in a
>> completely different universe, when recruiters were desperate to find
>> people and most people had jobs.  Now it's different, and the policy
>> should reflect that.
> 
>It does.  We went back to one aspect of policy that we had before the 
>VCs got all hot about Linux and things were quiet;  officers forward 
>approved job offers onto the SVLUG list.

Yes, and I'm glad for that.

>We have always encouraged human-networking during the hubbub.  Sorry if
>it doesn't feel official enough.  In order for it to get a bit more
>focussed, it would need someone to have the cycles to spare focussing it
>- and then be willing to not blow the job off when their world changes.
>If you're willing to be that person, than as far as I'm concerned,
>welcome aboard.  If you're not, then your suggestions on where you think 
>we'd find him/her would be welcome too.  Just remember the pay is zero
>dollars and some common sense.

I don't think that we actually need a job coordinator.  I'm just
saying that if we want to have a job corner, then I'd like to see it
made more obvious during the meetings.  Or if there's no job corner,
remove it from the website.

If there is a job corner, I would like to see it done in a way that
requires as little effort as possible from people other than the job
seekers & offerers, to avoid depending on volunteer labor.

>> >Commentary from other officers welcome...
>> Ditto.

I think at this point you and I have stated & restated our opinions
enough.  Anyone else care to weigh in?

--Bill.
-- 
William R Ward            bill at wards.net          http://www.wards.net/~bill/
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