[volunteers] bylaws - conspiracy

[Rick Moen]

Quoting Alvin Oga (alvin at mail.Linux-Consulting.com):

> it existed ... i will state as fact that it existed since svlug inception 

Existed _where_?  On one or more Web page hosted at
http://www.svlug.org/ ?  In one or more person's postings to the public
mailing lists?  Voted on by whom and when?  

(Please note that you seem to be speaking about something _different_ from
what Bruce is; he speaks rather vaguely of something created within the
last couple of years, whereas you're apparently talking about something
created somewhere between March 1988 (first meeting of SVCS PC Unix SIG)
and 1997 (registration of the svlug.org domain and my joining of the
group).

I'm not (yet!) saying either of you guys is incorrect; I'm saying I'm,
unfortunately, maybe so far not fully understanding _what exactly_
you're talking about.  (On the other hand, I'm saying I remember no such
thing as "SVLUG bylaws", and I've been around here since '97.  And I'm
pointing out that Marc Merlin likewise said there was no such thing, in
the post I quoted -- and he's an old-timer, too.  I'll also add that it
_really_ stretches credulity for such things to have once existed but
never show up in greps of our entire mailing list history, including the
antediluvian majordomo implementation.)

If you would kindly be more specific, in telling me what you're
referring to, I might be able to look better.

Remember, www.svlug.org has been archived on Internet Archive / Wayback
Machine since 1998 -- which, I should point out, means there are
contemporaneous records, there, of our Web site that nobody's
subsequently had access to fiddle with (by a "conspiracy" or otherwise)
-- and there's nothing about SVLUG bylaws mentioned on any of those 
archived pages.

I also have my own pristine archival copy of Dan Kionka's original Web
page for SVCS Linux SIG (the one he had at
http://www2.worldtalk.com/svcs.linux), 1997-07-11 version, at
http://linuxmafia.com/~rick/linux-info2/daniel-kionka.html -- and that
page says nothing about bylaws, either.

So, again, please give us something -- a former URL to search for, an at
least general notion of what to grep for in what mailing list, etc.  So
far, all you two guys have said is said "bylaws existed" -- and your two
stories about what those were appear to differ.

Now, on the other hand, if what you (Alvin) mean is merely "SVCS had
bylaws" and/or "Sbay.org had bylaws", then that's correct and I
absolutely believe you -- but those are a very different thing from
SVLUG having had them.

> - remember that presidential term discussions occured
> - remember that presidential voting occured
> 
> 	- where are all those announcements
> 	- where are all those vote counts
> 	- where are all those job descriptions

Yes, those (except for job descriptions, which never really existed) are
in the mailing list archives and on some of the news items / links on
http://www.svlug.org/news.php .

> if the policies doesnt exists... it was probably erased....

Nothing's been "erased" during my watch as Web Content Coordinator.  
(In prior discussion on svlug at lists.svlug.org, after you made an
erroneous assertion to the membership that policies for the mailing
lists had been erased, I detailed to you the careful merger of several
pages to eliminate http://www.svlug.org/maillist/ and
http://www.svlug.org/policies/job-policy.shtml as separate pages, but
all substantive content was preserved.)

>  or it was referenced externally to sbay.org that has all that stuff in place
> whom svlug has said it wants to be separate "ownership of svlug.org"
> from sbay...

Again, if you're saying there was a link from the www.svlug.org to
"SVLUG bylaws" at one of the Sbay.org Web sites, show us.  You should be
able to navigate directly to an snapshotted archival copy via 
http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.svlug.org/

Don't say "it got erased":  If it existed, then Internet Archive /
Wayback Machine should show it.

If neither of you guys can produce something a lot more substantive,
I'll be obliged to conclude that you are either mistaken or I have
somehow misunderstood what claim you're making.  So, please do clarify.
Thank you.