[volunteers] Emergency Constitutional Bylaws, mostly, I think.

bruce coston jane_ikari at yahoo.com
Sun Dec 16 06:47:35 PST 2007

[ Dearest Paul, I've already repeatedly told you
you have nothing to say to me offlist 

Bzzzt.  How about this... "No person sans authority shall proclaim 
[ show me in the bylaws oh omnipotent dictator who hath lost "Mandate of Heaven"]
[ "authority" according to whom ? no court would uphold your actions under the "prudent man standard".]
jack squat regarding SVLUG's operation".
[ that semms your level of competence. ]

Back off, Bruce - You're SO so fixated on your goal of helping SVLUG
[ Improve its politics despite the counter intuitive  situation. ]
to remove it's current President that it's affected your ability to
[ Good idea, what president? quit lying & hindering SVLUGs functioning. ]
think straight.  Mark W. resigned from the VP role for personal
[ nice claim about the veep on MY ticket, I overheard what really went on. You bully every messenger who brings bad news. ] 
reasons, nothing more - and your implication that the volunteers have
revolted is just plain ridiculous.  I've done a bit of house-cleaning
[ thats not what they told me: housecleaning, like preventing the new server? ],
sure, but SVLUG's volunteer efforts are proceeding more strongly than
ever before, quite the opposite of your contention.
[ You always say that. Results only seems to shows up dues to reasons externals to youse [[ is my agreement excessive? ]]. Yes, we even have new constitutional bylaws available that address our unique hazards - despite you fillibustering.]

SVLUG has no "Mandate from Heaven", no preclusion of _any_ person,
[ no "Mandate from Heaven" is the point - you lost it ! While obviously ignorant of its historical existence. ]
whether associated with sbay.org or any other organization, from being
[ we need new blood or will keep 'blowing up' every couple elections. ]
an officer, and absolutely no need to implement crazy-assed voting
[ dissing accurate voting, obviously a threat to your anti-democratic machinations.]
[ Consistent that Paul wanted everything offlist due to Pauls maniacal hatred of the disinfecting properties of  "Sunshine" too. Something about Paul is consistentLY bad. ] 

Further, SVLUG has no need for "help" in the form of content
"licensed" in such a fashion that people can't even reply to it in the
[ Daniel did , he just kept it small. ]
traditional cut-n-paste fashion.  You've precluded people from even
commenting on parts of what you've written because they have to copy
[ If one starts by assuming I'm outrageously impractical you'd think that. ]
the whole pile of B.S. in it's "whole form only".  As a friend of mine
[ Sorry the situation has inherent interactions, statistical term, ]
is fond of saying, "Good luck with that!"
[ It beats yours by an infinite margin. ]

As an aside, you post has introduced an interesting consideration -
_can_ anyone, simply by stating they're doing so, compel readers of
the SVLUG lists to comply with "licenses" on their words?  For
[ thou hath eschewed the protections of any such rules. ]
example, am I now truly required to refrain henceforth, sans your
permission, from using the terminology "Purpose, vision and mission
statement:" simply because it comprises a part of what you've said
[ under the right circumstances, yes. ]
you've licensed?  I don't buy that baloney for one minute... and hope
others will concur.
[ not the folks who begged me to stand against you. ]

Back to the issue - are you even making SENSE right now with what
[ how precisely is that issue greater than you illegalities? ]
you've written.  IMO, your post was disturbingly fragmented, neither
[ neither from lack of accuracy nor fragmentation but for showing Paul Reiber's failures. ]
cohesive nor logically consistent, and definitely inflammatory and
[ where do you get off complaining about that ? or lack of logic ]
ad-hominem.  Nothing at all like what we're trying as a group to
[ cue Daniels comment about svlug not= Paul. ]
[ accomplish , something Mr. Reiber takes credit for. ]
[ I have a proven track record of reasonably timely response when necessary.]  

It's apparent to me that your mere attendance at last night's meeting
[ was informative due to Heathers input. ]
has you feeling that you can now make proclamations about emergency
[ talk is cheap - DID YOU MEAN MAY ? Can you even tell the difference ?]
[ Do I need to ask as you did confuse that I did stand for election vs you. ]
bylaws and such - you've either gone completely off the deep end, or
[ yes you have ]
making some sort of a disturbingly sick joke right now.
[ yes, you are. ]

In this light... are you really expecting me or anyone else in SVLUG
[ do you finally advocate light? Why is this offlist ? ]
to take your input seriously?
[ glad to hear you finally take my input seriously in stark contrast to so much good advice you ignored]
[ including my "no constitution available for viewing and you may not like the consequences due to this groups traditions 6 mo. ago ." ]
...[ ] ...Let me state this clearly and concisely.

We're only interested in your help, Mr. Coston, if you can bring
[ cue Daniels svlug not= Paul comment ]
yourself to be...

- polite
- non-libelous
- rational
[ all qualities paul seems 2 lack, projection? ]
- sane
[er than demanding the guy who ran aginst you after volunteers begged him to and then you muzzle him on maillist but move on to demand he stand for election. ]
- contributory instead of confrontational 
[ I've contributed the appropriate facts regarding 'the rules' when the bylaws are "unavailable for viewing". Especially when You hide behind your failing to do even a tiny thing for SVLUG ]
[ a tiny thing that would have protected you against "The Mandate of Heaven" ]

If you can't be those things,  then SVLUG will not be interested
[ yes, you should resign. ]
in your help or even your participation at events.
[ so glad you desire my help , you obviously do need help]

I have no more patience for this; either play nice, or go away.
[ yes, you should go  away ]
-Paul Reiber,
President, SVLUG
[ Not according to our "Mandate of Heaven" tradition . ]

[ oops, Bill and not Paul now, is forgetting reply exists an epidemic in this group? - "Sunshine is the best disinfectant" ]
[ Looking back and slightly rewriting  my comments to Bill, they seem harsher than I would prefer. ]
[ amazing how Paul missed the point of Heathers email - which references how traditions count when the bylaws are " unavailable for viewing " and one ends up in court.]
[ Or Paul refuses to acknowledge any / all limits on his personal power but limits do exist against others in Mr. Reibers special personal universe of special personal facts. ]
[ quoting Robert Colbert " People used to believe you werre entitled to your own personal opinion but not your own personal version of the facts."  ] 

I EXPECT HE WILL NOT GET harassed 4 this. ]

I am confused - was this what came of the meeting on Thursday evening?
[ I consider certain persons actions at that meeting a filibuster. ]  [ thanks for pointing out something useful ] 
or is this some sort of political-group joke.

I love the Mandate of Heaven Rule - that got a good chuckle out of me - not only is the MANDATE OF HEAVEN a rule created to 'justify' the overthrow of a legitimate government or organization (Zhou Dynasty first used it in their justification of overthrowing the Shang Dynasty), it also states that there is no time limitations on the mandate - meaning... a totalitarian existence -  

[ your take unless wiki badness strikes again. I rarely bother with wiki due to inherent accuracy problems. ] [ thank you, I like USEFUL input. ] 
[ The Zhou would ask , legitamate according to whom ? ]

can you imagine if we ran the U.S. with a 'Mandate of Heaven' rule in place. It would cast us into anarchy.  

[ your take again , It would depend on the variant and specifically the trigger. In fact, such a rule vs big media consolidation or GINI slippage looks downright appealing.]
[ I like the three challenge rule imposed on military pilots under certain circumstances because its a proven lifesaver but "unfair". ]

As Wikipedia describes it, the Mandate is very similar to the European Divine Right - 

[ But with more responsibility for those in charge and who cares about opinions of friends of Jimbo's fanatics as dumped into wiki ? ]

so now we are mixing the Church with State - sweet.

[ your take again - is this serious ? ]

Most non-profit orgs have treasurers and a bank account 

[ relevance ?  after all most non-profits don't "Promote Gnu-Linux" or FOSS and many that do have those because they naively assume they need them due to misapplied experience elsewhere.  ]

to further legitimize the expenditures and the influx and release of money for projects and such.

[ your take again - is this serious ?  Not actually a justified conclusion. I'm in 2 groups with no such bank account - it's clearly not necessary. ]
  How else do we ensure that we are operating with integrity and honesty - we cover our butts by writing it all down.  
[ "writing it all down" does not follow from bank account and treasurer. ] [ thank you, I like USEFUL input. ] 

And as to the Politics discussions of an organization - it should be separated out from the rest - sorry.  

[ your take again - is this serious ?  We need an informed polity. Why do you think this groups politics 'blow up' every couple elections ? ]
[ Lacking an explanation for that makes your view questionable. I maintain this childish 'no politics' attitude actually causes problems, would you really claim otherwise. ]
[ Honestly, having observed the 'no politics' whimpering I'm reminded of abused children who associate various signs of conflict resolution with bad results - And try to ban them. Unfair? How do you expect conflict resolution ? ]
[ This fantasy server giving many magical benefits and much further away than Mr. Reiber's campaign claim = most disgusting. ]

I don't want my SVLUG mailing list which should be discussing SVLUG questions about LINUX only cluttered up with rhetoric like this.  Make it accessible to all - post period e-mails to the SLVUG community giving them the access to the other lists and to join the discussions, just off the main thread.
[ sorry your upset and confused, this aint LERT. And, thanks for expressing your constitutionally protected personal political opinion. ] 

[ that's one take on it - were you a witness to the svlug events in question ? ]
[ Dearest Bill, you've obviously missed most of whats going on here. ][ Paul hid his arbitrary rule by claiming nobody, specifically me, can show a spot in the bylaws that "says otherwise" by eschewing their limits ( he has thus informed us he wants no limits on both his authority and responsibility so yes I shall hound him out of office as the " mandate of heaven " in this groups prior history DEMANDS it of all who want a functioning LUG. ) .]
[ Paul must step down as his predecessor did for having lost so much volunteer support including his veep that the email was disrupted. Paul made it personal when it was rightly historical - especially when he hid behind the lack of bylaws !  ]
[ It's wonderful to reply to something real instead of Mr. Reiber's bullying.  ]
[ Re: "respect the office" any good volunteer will respect the office in the manner I have when the "Mandate of Heaven" suffers so. ]

[ Dear daniel, we need new blood and a smaller committee works better than a suspect one. ]
[ In case I didn't already respond to Warren, I had already included the "time and place of next meeting" in my constitutional bylaws as a guide in shopping for parliamentary procedure charts having already found Roberts lacking in my prior duties as a parliamentarian for a no-profit. ]
[ Guess that experience was more important than Kilgore thought. ] 

[ Special thanks to Andrew and Untangle Thursday night and the site. ]
[ I do need to improve this editing system , I'm using a plain editor, I'm an email luddite and OO.o was invented after email, ] 

Never miss a thing.   Make Yahoo your homepage.
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