[Volunteers] Volunteers Digest, Vol 5, Issue 27

Margaret Wendall mwendall at gmail.com
Fri Jul 22 13:38:34 PDT 2005


Hi,

This is my first post to this list, and I have a suggestion for a
simple way to tell speakers how much time they have - get a simple,
digital kitchen timer at something like Fry's or Bed, Bath & Beyond,
and then turn it on at the start of every meeting. If it's sitting on
the podium, the speaker could see it, but the audience could not....
This doesn't have to cost megabucks and I'd kick in a few $$$ if
necessary.

Margaret Wendall

On 7/22/05, volunteers-request at lists.svlug.org
<volunteers-request at lists.svlug.org> wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
> 
>    1. Re: SVLUG Volunteers meeting minutes, 20 June 2005 (Rick Moen)
>    2. Re: SVLUG Volunteers meeting minutes, 20 June 2005 (J. Paul Reed)
>    3. Re: SVLUG Volunteers meeting minutes, 20 June 2005 (Rick Moen)
>    4. Re: SVLUG Volunteers meeting minutes, 20 June 2005 (Bill Kendrick)
>    5. Re: SVLUG Volunteers meeting minutes, 20 June 2005 (Bill Kendrick)
>    6. Re: SVLUG Volunteers meeting minutes, 20 June 2005 (Rick Moen)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 17:25:39 -0700
> From: Rick Moen <rick at linuxmafia.com>
> Subject: Re: [Volunteers] SVLUG Volunteers meeting minutes, 20 June
>         2005
> To: volunteers at lists.svlug.org
> Message-ID: <20050722002539.GU11787 at linuxmafia.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> 
> Quoting J. Paul Reed (preed at svlug.org):
> 
> > ACTION_ITEM: JPR/IK: get SBAY.org paperwork done, including the SVLUG
> > Charter
> 
> Might be pluses and minuses to Sbay.org classifying us as a chartered SIG,
> which you might wish to consider before moving on this.  Reference:
> Article 12, section 3 of the Sbay's current bylaws
> (http://corp.sbay.org/bylaws-20021116.html).
> 
> (I should stress that I deeply appreciate Sbay.org's sponsorship, and
> intend no criticism.  They've been great, and a real asset to the
> volunteer community.)
> 
> The biggest difference would actually be that, unlike before, Sbay.org
> would require that any persons SVLUG's charter would dub as "officers"
> pay annual membership dues to Sbay.org (and be accepted by them as
> members).  SVLUG has never in the past required membership dues.  Do
> we really want to do that?  What's the benefit?
> 
> 
> Firing up the Wayback Machine for a minute....
> 
> We started as a Silicon Valley Computer Society SIG (initially its UNIX
> SIG).  Web page was at Dan Kionka's workplace, then later at our own
> machine subsidised by VA Research.  SVCS affiliation was cool because it
> gave us non-profit tax-exempt status and a corporate liability shield.
> 
> We registered domain name "svlug.org" (for the new name "Silicon Valley
> Linux User Group" that, as Ian reminded us, was coined by Rob Walker),
> carefully keeping ownership of the DNS domain in the hands of trusted
> volunteers, _rather than_ handing it to SVCS, in order to preserve our
> ability to leave SVCS if that ever became necessary.  Later, that proved
> a really wise move, when our relationship with SVCS disintegrated.
> 
> At that point, we simply de-affiliated with SVCS and re-affiliated with
> Sbay.org.  Because our only property (our domain) was in our hands
> independently, this wasn't a problem.
> 
> 
> Our understanding with SVCS was always that neither of us would
> interfere in the other, and we'd exist in symbiosis, e.g., SVLUG gave
> free Web hosting to its (theoretical) parent group at
> http://www.svlug.org/~svcs/ for a long time.
> 
> 
> Anyhow, Sbay.org's bylaws classify us as an "informal association" in
> its eyes (which is only fair), and state that Sbay.org's president has
> power to appoint and remove any "officer" of such an informal
> association, including you (in your role as what from Sbay.org's
> perspective is the "SIG coordinator").  My guess would be that you want
> a charter inside the Sbay.org framework to change that.  Correct?
> 
> But, actually, if Sbay.org were ever to attempt to do that, wouldn't our
> reaction be to say "Thanks for the corporate sponsorship, which was
> really nice, but we're leaving now"?  I mean, that was our understanding
> with SVCS; isn't that likewise with Sbay.org?
> 
> (Again, I'm not suggesting that Sbay.org isn't our benefactor and
> friend.  I'm just saying that we believed that about SVCS, too.)
> 
> Looking from that perspective, it's a good thing that we always kept
> ownership of our domain name in the hands of a trusted volunteer, rather
> than giving it to our sponsoring corporation -- or we'd have been in a
> real pickle with SVCS.  Luckily, we can pick up and move, any time
> we decide we need to.  Except -- oops! -- you seem to have very recently
> done away with that precaution.  Pity about that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 22:21:37 -0700
> From: "J. Paul Reed" <preed at svlug.org>
> Subject: Re: [Volunteers] SVLUG Volunteers meeting minutes, 20 June
>         2005
> To: Rick Moen <rick at linuxmafia.com>
> Cc: volunteers at lists.svlug.org
> Message-ID: <20050722052137.GB9852 at svlug.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> 
> On 21 Jul 2005 at 17:25:39, Rick Moen arranged the bits on my disk to say:
> 
> > Anyhow, Sbay.org's bylaws classify us as an "informal association" in its
> > eyes (which is only fair), and state that Sbay.org's president has power
> > to appoint and remove any "officer" of such an informal association,
> > including you (in your role as what from Sbay.org's perspective is the
> > "SIG coordinator").  My guess would be that you want a charter inside the
> > Sbay.org framework to change that.  Correct?
> 
> Something like that; I haven't discussed all the details with Ian yet.
> 
> > But, actually, if Sbay.org were ever to attempt to do that, wouldn't our
> > reaction be to say "Thanks for the corporate sponsorship, which was
> > really nice, but we're leaving now"?  I mean, that was our understanding
> > with SVCS; isn't that likewise with Sbay.org?
> 
> Like most open source entities, the ability to "fork" the group always
> exists. There are, however, consequences for doing so... and in our case, I
> think both sides would be acutely aware of what those are.
> 
> > Looking from that perspective, it's a good thing that we always kept
> > ownership of our domain name in the hands of a trusted volunteer,
> 
> Which it currently is: Ian holds the access to the domain name
> administration. It's listed as an organization, but Ian is the President of
> that organization.
> 
> > Except -- oops! -- you seem to have very recently done away with that
> > precaution.  Pity about that.
> 
> I don't see this as a short term problem.
> 
> If it becomes a long term problem, you can take consolation in the fact
> that history will remember J. Paul Reed as the person who ruined SVLUG by
> ceding control of it to SBAY.org (reminds me Kerry's "Global Test"
> statement which The Right so predictably perverted; see
> http://slate.msn.com/id/2107690/)
> 
> Later,
> Paul
> --
> President
> Silicon Valley Linux Users' Group
> preed at svlug.org
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 22:43:32 -0700
> From: Rick Moen <rick at linuxmafia.com>
> Subject: Re: [Volunteers] SVLUG Volunteers meeting minutes, 20 June
>         2005
> To: volunteers at lists.svlug.org
> Message-ID: <20050722054331.GD12327 at linuxmafia.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> 
> Quoting J. Paul Reed (preed at svlug.org):
> 
> > Like most open source entities, the ability to "fork" the group always
> > exists.
> 
> Huh?
> 
> SVLUG did not "fork" when it left SVCS.  It simply took everything and
> departed, entirely intact.  (I'm extremely surprised to hear you
> referring this exercise of our autonomy as "forking".  This seems to be
> some novel sense of the term.)
> 
> > > Looking from that perspective, it's a good thing that we always kept
> > > ownership of our domain name in the hands of a trusted volunteer,
> >
> > Which it currently is: Ian holds the access to the domain name
> > administration. It's listed as an organization, but Ian is the
> > President of that organization.
> 
> I didn't expect I'd have to diagram the point for you, but, oh well:
> We always (prior to your recently initiated ownership transfer) kept
> ownership of our domain name in the hands of a trusted volunteer
> distinct from our sponsoring parent corporation.
> 
> You've recently set up a situation where the exact situation we always
> tried to avoid was created:  Sbay.org as a corporate entity was given,
> in essence, veto control over our ever deciding to cease association
> with them (except by changing our name).
> 
> > I don't see this as a short term problem.
> 
> Rather clearly, you didn't see it at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 4
> Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2005 01:26:17 -0700
> From: Bill Kendrick <nbs at sonic.net>
> Subject: Re: [Volunteers] SVLUG Volunteers meeting minutes, 20 June
>         2005
> To: SVLUG Volunteers <volunteers at lists.svlug.org>
> Message-ID: <20050722082617.GC489 at sonic.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> 
> On Thu, Jul 21, 2005 at 10:43:32PM -0700, Rick Moen wrote:
> > SVLUG did not "fork" when it left SVCS.  It simply took everything and
> > departed, entirely intact.
> 
> Heh, maybe Paul was thinking in Unix fork() terms:
> 
>   fork creates a child process that differs from the parent process only
>   in its PID and PPID
> 
> But then, maybe I'm a big nerd.  But somehow, I think Paul's just as
> big of a nerd. ;^)
> 
> 
> -bill!
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 5
> Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2005 11:14:48 -0700
> From: Bill Kendrick <nbs at sonic.net>
> Subject: Re: [Volunteers] SVLUG Volunteers meeting minutes, 20 June
>         2005
> To: SVLUG Volunteers <volunteers at lists.svlug.org>
> Message-ID: <20050722181448.GA31357 at sonic.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> 
> On Wed, Jul 20, 2005 at 09:00:21PM -0700, J. Paul Reed wrote:
> >
> > SVLUG Volunteer Meeting
> > 21 June 2005
> <snip>
> >
> > 4. Speakers
> > 4a. Need to find a way to gather speaker preferences (questions
> > before/after, etc.
> > 4b. Need to find a way to indicate time left to speakers.
> >
> > ACTION_ITEM: BK will handle both 4a and 4b.
> 
> I'll see if maybe we can get a from put up on the website for 4a...
> or, at least, a questionnaire<sp?> which speakers can read and then
> email me with any concerns.  e.g.:
> 
>   Unless you state otherwise, we'll assume you're ok with questions during...
> 
> For 4b, I think a hand signal thing would work, but I'm afraid we'll
> forget to explain to the speaker "dude in back winking at you will mean
> '5-minutes'", whereas a big "5 MINS LEFT" sign would be easy to comprehend
> without any prior explanation.
> 
> Is there a box or anything that gets brough to SVLUG at each meeting?
> (At LUGOD we have a box of flyers, membership signup forms, signage to
> put up at the venue ("Meeting's this-a-way," "This Crap Is All Free", etc.)
> and give-aways.)
> 
> 
> <snip>
> > 2. Sat, 10 September is Software Freedom Day; we want to do something for
> > it.
> 
> For whoever wants to take this ball and roll with it (we might want to
> post to svlug and/or svlug-announce to find someone willing to coordinate),
> simply look at:  http://www.softwarefreedomday.org/  There's a wiki and
> forums and tons of info, and it's pretty easy to set up.  SVLUG may have
> missed the deadline for getting free Ubuntu discs, but we could always
> find a kind person/company to burn off a hundred or so discs, depending
> on what exactly the event SVLUG does _is_.
> 
> FYI, I'll probably be helping with LUGOD's SFD demo in Davis, but I'm
> not certain.  (For general LUGOD demo info, visit:
> http://www.lugod.org/projects/demo/ )
> 
> 
> > 3. Large printouts can be sent to CV (max of 5); we'd probably like to get
> > a couple for meetings ("SVLUG this way", etc)
> 
> Is anyone handling this?
> 
> 
> > 4. Distributing Picnix fliers; we'd like to do a shadow flier for SVLUG as
> > well.
> >
> > ACTION_ITEM: HS/BK: come up with a shadow flier for SVLUG
> 
> I still need to make the 'shadow' SVLUG flyer.  I'm /nearly/ done doing
> the Picn*x14 flyers.  (You can see the sponsor-less drafts at the
> following temp. URL: http://www.newbreedsoftware.com/p14/flyers/ )
> 
> After that, I'll make the shadow SVLUG one and when I post a
> "please print flyers for picnix" message to SVLUG, I'll try to remember
> to tell people they can also print some SVLUG-specific ones, too.
> 
> 
> > 5. Other outreach ideas: conferences, Open Country/USENIX, ISSA,
> > Universities, Classes. See http://lugod.org/projects/ for example LUG
> > projects.
> 
> Feel free to ask me (on this list) for any details.
> 
> 
> <snip>
> > 5c. SVLUG-sponsored contributions to open source software projects;
> > leveraging Hacking Society to do this?
> 
> I'd love some help with Tux Paint some time.  Need to get Melissa's
> laptop working on wireless, and/or get my own laptop. ;)
> 
> --
> -bill!                          Picn*x14 --- Linux Anniversary Picnic & BBQ!
> bill at newbreedsoftware.com       Sunnyvale Baylands Park, Sunday, August 14th
> http://newbreedsoftware.com/    http://linuxpicnic.org/ to RSVP & volunteer!
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 6
> Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2005 11:48:58 -0700
> From: Rick Moen <rick at linuxmafia.com>
> Subject: Re: [Volunteers] SVLUG Volunteers meeting minutes, 20 June
>         2005
> To: volunteers at lists.svlug.org
> Message-ID: <20050722184857.GV11787 at linuxmafia.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> 
> Quoting Bill Kendrick (nbs at sonic.net):
> 
> > Heh, maybe Paul was thinking in Unix fork() terms:
> >
> >   fork creates a child process that differs from the parent process only
> >   in its PID and PPID
> >
> > But then, maybe I'm a big nerd.  But somehow, I think Paul's just as
> > big of a nerd. ;^)
> 
> I like it.  ;->
> 
> Anyhow, I wasn't saying there was any dire conspiracy; I just said we'd
> recently lost a precaution we'd always previously maintained.
> 
> But, also, I was raising a question about Paul's charter thing, and it
> seems to have gotten completely disregarded.  It was:  "What's the benefit?"
> 
> I already mentioned a disadvantage:  If we file a "charter" to
> alter our status with Sbay.org from "informal association" to chartered
> SIG, then Sbay will from then on require that any SIG (SVLUG) officers
> hold Sbay memberships.  That's (normally[1]) a $10/year membership fee,
> members must agree to abide by Sbay's corporate By-Laws and any rules it
> passes, and also members can be ejected by the corporate Board if it
> believes they are acting against the corporate interests.
> 
> So, _with_ a charter, all SVLUG officers would be required by an outside
> non-profit corporation (Sbay) to keep dues-paying member status with it.
> _Without_ a charter, that is not the case.  It's never been the case
> until now that SVLUG officers must pass muster with (and pay money to)
> some other organisation, in order to hold their offices.  What's the
> compelling advantage that justifies this change?
> 
> 
> SVLUG's always kept our relationship with its sponsoring non-profit
> "parent" group simple:  We stay under their corporate umbrella, they
> benefit in various ways from (or at least don't mind) our being there,
> and neither of us interferes in the other.  We avoid conflict of
> interest, but are functionally autonomous.  SVLUG runs its own affairs.
> 
> Which brings me to the other consequence of a "charter" that I see in
> Sbay's By-Laws:  Currently, Sbay's president has the theoretical power to
> appoint/remove at will any officer of the "SIG" (i.e., SVLUG), including
> its president (whom it dubs the "SIG coordinator").  Adopting a charter
> would limit that theoretical power to appointment/removal at will of
> _only_ SVLUG's president.  SVLUG's president would, in turn, be himself
> empowered by Sbay to appoint/remove at will any other SVLUG officer,
> including the VP whom our membership elects every fall.  (However, a 2/3
> vote of Sbay's corporate Board could still order such removals.)
> 
> I asked Paul if that change is what he was trying to bring about, through
> a "charter".  He replied only "Something like that".
> 
> My point was:  Why are we treating Sbay's theoretical powers to
> appoint/remove SVLUG officers as _real_ -- any more than SVCS's were?
> We run our own affairs; if SVCS (or Sbay) ever attempted to remove a
> president or VP whom the members had elected -- or if SVCS (or Sbay) even
> attempted to remove an officer our people appointed, _we'd simply say no_,
> wouldn't we?  Don't we run our own affairs?
> 
> So:  Is Paul proposing to cede our autonomy?  If not -- again -- what's
> the benefit to SVLUG of a "charter" within Sbay's corporate framework?
> 
> 
> [1] The corporation's Board can optionally waive this annual fee for
> volunteers whose efforts it wants to recognise, which status Sbay calls
> "contributing memberships".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
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> 
> 
> End of Volunteers Digest, Vol 5, Issue 27
> *****************************************
> 


-- 
Margaret Wendall
mwendall at gmail.com
http://www.cleopanther.org




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