[svlug] Inits (was: On the process of picking up systemd)

Scott DuBois rhcom.linux at gmail.com
Mon Jan 5 10:55:47 PST 2015


On Sun, Jan 04, 2015 at 02:03:05AM -0500, Steve Litt wrote:
> > 
> > But then you may be right, systemd was "forced" on a minority of
> > people that "typically hail from more niche distributions like
> > Slackware, Gentoo, CRUX and others"...
> 
> Almost everyone was forced. Only some, and they tended to be the kind
> who would use Slack, Gentoo, etc, minded being forced.
> 
> > 
> > For their use case systemd is "technically inferior".
> > 
> > Are you saying that people at RH, Ubuntu, SuSE, Debian (Google??) were
> > tricked into choosing a "technically inferior" solution even if they
> > knew there were "superior" viable alternatives?
> 
> Tricked or pushed, yes.
> 
> > Were all their users, including the one that pay their bills and
> > companies with large deployments, tricked to accept a "technically
> > inferior" solution?
> 
> So far, yes. This will likely change.
> 

If anything it's been interesting to read the flame wars and complaints about
systemd. Is it right? I don't believe the 'one ring to rule them all' concept is
thew ay to go however, the other factors such as mobile and the industry's
other primary directions may warrant such a development case. Similar to how
there are 200+ distributions to choose from, persons who do not agree with the
design philosophy behind systemd are more than welcome to haggle their own
system together using whatever they wish as an init system; have fun with that.

We can read the blogs, follow the threads, and jump into any forum we desire to
debate to death the design merits of systemd and how it relates to our own
personal lives. At the end of the day though, we either live with it or do
something else where it's not a part of _our_ ecosystem. We _do_ have the right
to decide to work with it or not and bitching about someone else's decisions to
implement it into a larger, mainstream, distribution isn't going to change
things. It might just possibly turn out to be a temporary situation that will
evolve into something less monolithic depending on the severity of global
destruction it creates in it's wake. Remember, most users don't really give a
rats ass about the init system anyway as long as everything stays working on a
daily basis. Among all the tech users of the world, Linux users are a small
minority and those who have a 'real' stake in the deployed init system are even
smaller than that.

When it comes to design areas relating directly to kernel processes, I simply
default to the leaders and let them decide what's best for the industry as their
perspective is by *magnitudes* much broader than mine.

Linus on systemd -Sep. 2014-

"I don't actually have any particularly strong opinions on systemd itself. I've
had issues with some of the core developers that I think are much too cavalier
about bugs and compatibility, and I think some of the design details are insane
(I dislike the binary logs, for example), but those are details, not big
issues."

http://www.zdnet.com/article/linus-torvalds-and-others-on-linuxs-systemd/

"When it comes to systemd, you may expect me to have lots of colorful opinions,
and I just don't," Torvalds says. "I don't personally mind systemd, and in fact
my main desktop and laptop both run it." Torvalds added, "I think many of the
'original ideals' of UNIX are these days more of a mindset issue than
necessarily reflecting reality of the situation. There's still value in
understanding the traditional UNIX "do one thing and do it well" model where
many workflows can be done as a pipeline of simple tools each adding their own
value, but let's face it, it's not how complex systems really work, and it's not
how major applications have been working or been designed for a long time. It's
a useful simplification, and it's still true at some level, but I think it's
also clear that it doesn't really describe most of reality."

http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=117454   




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