[svlug] Desktop software and systems management

Steve Litt slitt at troubleshooters.com
Thu Nov 20 09:44:07 PST 2014

On Thu, 20 Nov 2014 06:41:23 -0800
Rick Moen <rick at svlug.org> wrote:

> I encounter a lot of anti-systemd ranters (see, for example, the Web
> archive of a new-ish mailing list called modular-debian), 

As a first class anti-systemd ranter and one of the first and most
verbal members of modular-debian, allow me to offer an alternative
characterization in describing modular-debian. I wouldn't call it in
any way ranty. What we're doing on modular-debian is constructive, not
destructive. We're helping each other achieve our individual and varying
goals. The only commonality of those goals is we don't want systemd on
our boxes. We've got desktop people, server people, big iron people,
little contractor people, everyone.

If any of you want a box sans systemd, you might want to join

Now, about Ricks assertion that systemd is the symptom, not the
disease: He's absolutely right. He's right that the problem is not
systemd per-se, but instead entanglement to the point of de-facto
monolithism. He may be right about the init part of systemd being good
(I have no way of knowing). He's right about the entanglement rendering
the system almost unrepairable.

I think the reason the Opendesktop people got as far as they did,
until systemd, is that, until systemd, we had a choice. I don't like
dbus, so I blew KDE libs off my box years ago. I was using Xfce, and
then migrated to Openbox. I had choices, so I didn't care what Gnome,
KDE, and the people at Opendesktop were doing. I had a choice.

Systemd was the point at which choice became impractical, so that's the
point at which a lot of us stood up and said "not on my box". I'm glad
that Rick pointed out systemd is really the symptom, not the disease.
I'll be forwarding Rick's email to modular-debian.

Anyway, here's my point. If you don't want systemd on your system, that
doesn't make you a hater or whinger or spammer or ranter or graybeard:
It makes you a person who wants a choice. If your choice is to go
sans-systemd, the modular-debian community can do you a lot of good.


Steve Litt                *  http://www.troubleshooters.com/
Troubleshooting Training  *  Human Performance

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