[svlug] Vote of no confidence in the current administration

Edward Cherlin echerlin at gmail.com
Thu Jan 24 13:37:03 PST 2008

Could you two take this to another thread, or even a different list
like volunteers? We're talking politics here.

On Jan 24, 2008 11:39 AM, Chris Miller <lordsauronthegreat at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jan 23, 2008 10:14 PM, Rick Moen <rick at linuxmafia.com> wrote:
> > Quoting Chris Miller (lordsauronthegreat at gmail.com):
> >
> > > Sometimes I think you people should just use some dang off-the-shelf
> > > Joomla CMS tool like everyone else instead of quibbling over who
> > > writes the site, who admins it, and who hosts it.
> >
> > 'Cause then we'll all be too depressed by ugly URLs, nonexistent
> Heard of mod_rewrite?  What am I thinking, this isn't a stupid group!
> Of course you have!
> http://www.fsdev.net/
> http://fsdev.net/kingdom-wars-mainmenu-19
> http://fsdev.net/component/content/article/1-site/8-return-of-the-forumz
> http://fsdev.net/home-mainmenu-6/1-site/7-upgradepains
> Those are real URLs which map to real content items in my site.  A
> little hacking of the .htaccess file and I'm sure you could rewrite
> that long component/content/article/1-site part even smaller.
> > developer docs, inflexible design (including a dumb section/category
> > classification scheme, and inability to add even minor PHP tweaks
> I didn't understand that sheme to begin with, but once I figured out
> how it organizes content items by major category and then by
> subcategory it all made sense.  Granted, I only have one place I can
> post content items at the moment, but I haven't had any news items
> worth another category.
> Right now I'm working on some Stack and Queue implementations for
> Tango, a library of the D Programming Language, so I don't have much
> to noise about.
> > without redoing a bunch of XML and writing joomla-integration PHP codes),
> They have great developer docs!  You can go out to Borders and buy a
> whole, tangible book from APress about Joomla!, both for the 1.0.xx
> line and the newer 1.5 release candidates.
> And as with all Open-Source projects, you can read the sources themselves!
> > no fine-grained access control, bloat, ever-changing APIs,
> The APIs only undergo major change in major releases.  I haven't run
> into a problem with that yet.  True, I'm now waiting for other
> components to update to Joomla! 1.5, but that's just because I'm an
> early-adopter.  I didn't have any other tools that were actually in
> use (by people other than me) so I figure the world won't die if they
> take a few months to manifest themselves.
> Joomla! doesn't strike me as being especially bloated.  It could be
> smaller, but that's the problem of building a framework: where does
> the extensibility end and the bloat begin?
> The access control is getting better, though I agree it leaves a
> little to be wanted in terms of more customizable per-user access
> settings and custom group access settings, specifically with relation
> to per-service access.  That's rumored to undergo a really big change
> in 1.5, however.  They totally re-wrote the user authentication APIs,
> and they're much better.  I'm not a Joomla! hacker, I'm just a simple
> systems programmer, but I do listen and the scent is a major change
> with the 1.5 release along those lines.
> > excruciatingly bad HTML output, no comment system without third-party
> > plugins, sucky administration and templating subsystems, and endless PHP
> The HTML output renders fine on Konqueror, Firefox (1, 2, and 3),
> Safari, and even Internet Exlpoder.  I agree, it could be a lot more
> standards-compliant.  Joomla! 1.5 changes a lot, and it really got
> better, as opposed to worse.
> > and MySQL problems to make trouble?  ;->
> I haven't run into anything troublesome about PHP or MySQL yet.
> Actually, I kind of like it.  So long as I use FCGI PHP5 I can enabled
> magic-quotes on DreamHost.  It runs faster and is quite secure.
> Obviously it's not perfect, and probably not as perfect as your
> custom-built system, but it works and it's maintained.
> MySQL is very easy to set up.  I can do it (even without XAMPP, which
> is saying quite a bit).  PHP/Apache is easy to set up as well.  You
> could also do it using LightHTTPD and PHP as well if you don't want to
> mess around with HTTPD all day, though I'm not sure why you'd do that.
> > Tell you what:  Work through the tutorial on how to get Joomla to
> > display "Hello world" (http://help.joomla.org/content/view/773/125/),
> > and then tell me how great it is.  I find that hysterical, myself.
> That's really not that confusing, but then again, I'm used to larger
> and more complex APIs by now (I tried Ruby on Rails, after getting 10%
> into that, no library other than MFC and .NET really has the capacity
> to scare me).
> It's a simple object creation, creating an object which extends a base
> interface object representing a implementation agreement about Joomla!
> 1.0.xx administrative interface components.  This in turn seems to
> generate a HTML tidbit which can be output through the site, much like
> a SMARTY template, only slightly less weird.
> --
> Registered Linux Addict #431495
> http://profile.xfire.com/mrstalinman | John 3:16!
> http://www.fsdev.net/ | http://www.mindofsauron.blogspot.com/
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Edward Cherlin
End Poverty at a Profit by teaching children business
"The best way to predict the future is to invent it."--Alan Kay

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