[svlug] Vote of no confidence in the current administration

Chris Miller lordsauronthegreat at gmail.com
Thu Jan 24 11:39:42 PST 2008

On Jan 23, 2008 10:14 PM, Rick Moen <rick at linuxmafia.com> wrote:
> Quoting Chris Miller (lordsauronthegreat at gmail.com):
> > Sometimes I think you people should just use some dang off-the-shelf
> > Joomla CMS tool like everyone else instead of quibbling over who
> > writes the site, who admins it, and who hosts it.
> 'Cause then we'll all be too depressed by ugly URLs, nonexistent

Heard of mod_rewrite?  What am I thinking, this isn't a stupid group!
Of course you have!


Those are real URLs which map to real content items in my site.  A
little hacking of the .htaccess file and I'm sure you could rewrite
that long component/content/article/1-site part even smaller.

> developer docs, inflexible design (including a dumb section/category
> classification scheme, and inability to add even minor PHP tweaks

I didn't understand that sheme to begin with, but once I figured out
how it organizes content items by major category and then by
subcategory it all made sense.  Granted, I only have one place I can
post content items at the moment, but I haven't had any news items
worth another category.

Right now I'm working on some Stack and Queue implementations for
Tango, a library of the D Programming Language, so I don't have much
to noise about.

> without redoing a bunch of XML and writing joomla-integration PHP codes),

They have great developer docs!  You can go out to Borders and buy a
whole, tangible book from APress about Joomla!, both for the 1.0.xx
line and the newer 1.5 release candidates.

And as with all Open-Source projects, you can read the sources themselves!

> no fine-grained access control, bloat, ever-changing APIs,

The APIs only undergo major change in major releases.  I haven't run
into a problem with that yet.  True, I'm now waiting for other
components to update to Joomla! 1.5, but that's just because I'm an
early-adopter.  I didn't have any other tools that were actually in
use (by people other than me) so I figure the world won't die if they
take a few months to manifest themselves.

Joomla! doesn't strike me as being especially bloated.  It could be
smaller, but that's the problem of building a framework: where does
the extensibility end and the bloat begin?

The access control is getting better, though I agree it leaves a
little to be wanted in terms of more customizable per-user access
settings and custom group access settings, specifically with relation
to per-service access.  That's rumored to undergo a really big change
in 1.5, however.  They totally re-wrote the user authentication APIs,
and they're much better.  I'm not a Joomla! hacker, I'm just a simple
systems programmer, but I do listen and the scent is a major change
with the 1.5 release along those lines.

> excruciatingly bad HTML output, no comment system without third-party
> plugins, sucky administration and templating subsystems, and endless PHP

The HTML output renders fine on Konqueror, Firefox (1, 2, and 3),
Safari, and even Internet Exlpoder.  I agree, it could be a lot more
standards-compliant.  Joomla! 1.5 changes a lot, and it really got
better, as opposed to worse.

> and MySQL problems to make trouble?  ;->

I haven't run into anything troublesome about PHP or MySQL yet.
Actually, I kind of like it.  So long as I use FCGI PHP5 I can enabled
magic-quotes on DreamHost.  It runs faster and is quite secure.
Obviously it's not perfect, and probably not as perfect as your
custom-built system, but it works and it's maintained.

MySQL is very easy to set up.  I can do it (even without XAMPP, which
is saying quite a bit).  PHP/Apache is easy to set up as well.  You
could also do it using LightHTTPD and PHP as well if you don't want to
mess around with HTTPD all day, though I'm not sure why you'd do that.

> Tell you what:  Work through the tutorial on how to get Joomla to
> display "Hello world" (http://help.joomla.org/content/view/773/125/),
> and then tell me how great it is.  I find that hysterical, myself.

That's really not that confusing, but then again, I'm used to larger
and more complex APIs by now (I tried Ruby on Rails, after getting 10%
into that, no library other than MFC and .NET really has the capacity
to scare me).

It's a simple object creation, creating an object which extends a base
interface object representing a implementation agreement about Joomla!
1.0.xx administrative interface components.  This in turn seems to
generate a HTML tidbit which can be output through the site, much like
a SMARTY template, only slightly less weird.

Registered Linux Addict #431495
http://profile.xfire.com/mrstalinman | John 3:16!
http://www.fsdev.net/ | http://www.mindofsauron.blogspot.com/

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