[svlug] Fwd: vacation - FYI, TTYL, and by all means, don't forget to regularly CYA.

Tom Pilot hman_120 at yahoo.com
Thu Jan 24 11:28:13 PST 2008

Nothing wrong with that - a lot of CEOs/presidents receive orders from ppl in their organization with certain power. The job of a president is to manage the organization, and not the people. 
Unfortunately (i say "Unfortunately" because of his attitude sometimes) Rick M,  posses this kind of power by virtue of his technical skills and writing abilities, so any president of SVLUG would have to give him the time of day.

----- Original Message ----
From: Paul Reiber <reiber at gmail.com>
To: Tom Pilot <hman_120 at yahoo.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2008 10:47:28 AM
Subject: Re: [svlug] Fwd: vacation - FYI, TTYL, and by all means, don't forget to regularly CYA.

Hiya, Tom!

Thanks for yet another "should" - just what I need - yet ANOTHER
person telling me how to work.  Well...  NO - you're mistaken.

I wasn't giving Rick orders, he was giving ME orders.

That was totally out of line, and far from the first time he'd tried

As such... I'll be departing shortly.  I do wish him well with HIS lug,


On Jan 24, 2008 7:27 AM, Tom Pilot <hman_120 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> I think Rick's offer was reasonable. You should have taken it and it
 was your chance to finish your term successfully. You have to be able
 to negotiate with other members and not just give them orders.
> Good Luck we know you meant well.
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Paul Reiber <reiber at gmail.com>
> To: SVLUG Volunteers <volunteers at lists.svlug.org>; SVLUG
 <svlug at lists.svlug.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 8:37:35 PM
> Subject: [svlug] Fwd: vacation - FYI, TTYL, and by all means, don't
 forget to regularly CYA.
> Greetings, all SVLUG volunteers and general members!
> A number of you appeared quite interested in learning some of the
> details about why/how mailman fell over for so long on our server
> recently.  So... enjoy.
> You'll note that below, in response to my simple-as-can-be one-line
> request, I was given an ultimatum-style choice of two options --
> basically coming down to, "do things Mr. Moen's way, or don't get his
> help".
> This stuck in my craw to the point that I was unable to pen a reply;
> remain astounded to this day by the mans audacity and impertinence in
> the face of such a simple request, especially when he knew that he
> I alone were the only two volunteers actively managing the
> mailinglists.
> For some time, I actually pondered which of Rick's proposed avenues I
> should take.  Then, I thought outside the box.  Instead I've taken a
> third and considerably more liberating approach to dealing with this
> entire situation; I've focused on my personal mission - education -
> and I've realized, I do not NEED to use the Presidency of SVLUG to
> achieve that mission.  Given that, I've little motivation to continue
> on in the capacity of President, especially given the state of
> Put quite simply, I'll be appointing a replacement SVLUG President
> VP as soon as reasonably possible.
> The first pair of at least semi-competent individuals who can manage
> to pen a note to me to the effect that one of them is willing to
> undertake the presidency and the other is willing to undertake the
> vice-presidency of this fine organization will most probably find
> themselves being given those jobs... along with my condolences and my
> heartfelt best wishes and hopes that they can succeed where I've
> failed.
> You can all bicker as much as you want, later (and NOT with me!)
> whether the SVLUG President should or shouldn't have the right to
> appoint officers...  By all means, hash that out and decide on it...
> and write it down in SVLUG's new bylaws, whenever you all decide to
> write those.  But, for now, failing the existence of any rules saying
> I can't do that, I'm doing that - I'll simply be appointing two new
> officers, ASAP.
> This is a "first come first serve" offer, pretty much, with the
> exception of the "competency" requirement.
> So, if ANY of you - active volunteers, active members, and even
> inactive members... would like to try your hand at running the show,
> by all means, compose an email and send it to me.  This is not up for
> discussion; I've thought this through quite thoroughly, and I plan to
> take this course of action as soon as the opportunity presents
> I wish my successor, whoever that may be, the best of luck in dealing
> with Mr. Moen and the remaining other problematic volunteers within
> SVLUG who've refused to go away, and refused to refrain from
> SVLUG even after being shown how their ongoing behaviour has been
> detrimental to the group.
> I guess no-one can fire an SVLUG volunteer, huh?  That really needs
> go into the bylaws, too, unless it's false, in which case the
> procedure for it needs to be documented really well, so that people
> don't feel they're being unfairly targetted when they're simply being
> dismissed from service as volunteers for _whatever_ reasons.
> I think, for one, "Hurting more than you're helping" surely qualifies
> as a reason for dismissing a volunteer.  I'm sure there will be other
> metrics which similarly will warrant that course of action.
> In any event... my work here at SVLUG is very nearly done.  I've at
> this point given up entirely on implementing any of my planned
> educational initiatives within SVLUG, and will quite soon be out of
> all of your hair.  There are other much more receptive venues for the
> sorts of educational initiatives I'm implementing; I'll avail myself
> of those rather than trying to force-fit SVLUG into the mold of a
> mature, educationally-focused organization.
> May you all somehow get things within SVLUG working exactly how you
> personally perceive that they should, regardless of the stated
> of any and all past, current and future officers.
> Indeed - let chaos reign!  SVLUG is best served by bullheaded people
> who aren't listening to their elected leaders since they're too busy
> complaining loudly about how those same leaders are not listening to
> them.
> Go team!  Good luck with everything, guys!
> -pbr
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Rick Moen <rick at linuxmafia.com>
> Date: Dec 20, 2007 6:00 PM
> Subject: Re: vacation
> To: Paul Reiber <reiber at gmail.com>
> Quoting Paul Reiber (reiber at gmail.com):
> > Can I count on you for mailman list admin while I'm gone for the
> > holidays?
> My suggestion (which should solve that problem for you, permanently):
> Along with other members of the Web Team, I resume mailing list
> applying technical management and only the policies documented on our
> Web pages.  In doing so, those admins answer to you and to your
> eventual VP.  (Their positions are at least theoretically appointive,
>  so
> they must answer to the elected officers.)  Any listadmin action by
> anyone is fair game for questioning and discussion on Volunteers.
> The part involving you is that you act _through_ the listadmins
> than directly.  If you have a problem with what's going on with the
> lists, you don't just bypass the listadmins and take direct action,
> not on-list and not in private mail.  Instead, you talk to the
> and ask them to do what's needed.  (If the posted policies call for
> action, I expect they'd do it.)  If you're unhappy with the
> you can replace them.  (They're appointive.)
> The key part is you agreeing to act through the listadmins, rather
> acting as one and (e.g.) inventing new rules on the fly.  If you
> then your listadmin problem can cease today, and not just during your
> vacation.
> I would _not_ make any issue about this agreement in public.  The
> understanding would remain private (unless you wish otherwise).
> Just say "OK", and you're done.  ;->
> (Note:  Because I currently am reportedly not in /etc/sudoers and
> have the current root password, there are a few Mailman-related
>  I
> can't do, such as restarting qrunner if it dies again, or relaunching
> exim4.  If anything like that is needed, at present, I'll have to
> telephone Lisa, or Daniel, or Mark W., or whoever.  Other than that,
> can handle anything else I can imagine being needed.)
> By the way, Merry Christmas, and have a good time in Brazil.
> _______________________________________________
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> http://lists.svlug.org/lists/listinfo/svlug
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