[svlug] Fwd: vacation - FYI, TTYL, and by all means, don't forget to regularly CYA.

Tom Pilot hman_120 at yahoo.com
Thu Jan 24 07:27:37 PST 2008

I think Rick's offer was reasonable. You should have taken it and it was your chance to finish your term successfully. You have to be able to negotiate with other members and not just give them orders.

Good Luck we know you meant well.

----- Original Message ----
From: Paul Reiber <reiber at gmail.com>
To: SVLUG Volunteers <volunteers at lists.svlug.org>; SVLUG <svlug at lists.svlug.org>
Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 8:37:35 PM
Subject: [svlug] Fwd: vacation - FYI, TTYL, and by all means, don't forget to regularly CYA.

Greetings, all SVLUG volunteers and general members!

A number of you appeared quite interested in learning some of the
details about why/how mailman fell over for so long on our server
recently.  So... enjoy.

You'll note that below, in response to my simple-as-can-be one-line
request, I was given an ultimatum-style choice of two options --
basically coming down to, "do things Mr. Moen's way, or don't get his

This stuck in my craw to the point that I was unable to pen a reply; I
remain astounded to this day by the mans audacity and impertinence in
the face of such a simple request, especially when he knew that he and
I alone were the only two volunteers actively managing the

For some time, I actually pondered which of Rick's proposed avenues I
should take.  Then, I thought outside the box.  Instead I've taken a
third and considerably more liberating approach to dealing with this
entire situation; I've focused on my personal mission - education -
and I've realized, I do not NEED to use the Presidency of SVLUG to
achieve that mission.  Given that, I've little motivation to continue
on in the capacity of President, especially given the state of things.
Put quite simply, I'll be appointing a replacement SVLUG President and
VP as soon as reasonably possible.

The first pair of at least semi-competent individuals who can manage
to pen a note to me to the effect that one of them is willing to
undertake the presidency and the other is willing to undertake the
vice-presidency of this fine organization will most probably find
themselves being given those jobs... along with my condolences and my
heartfelt best wishes and hopes that they can succeed where I've

You can all bicker as much as you want, later (and NOT with me!) about
whether the SVLUG President should or shouldn't have the right to
appoint officers...  By all means, hash that out and decide on it...
and write it down in SVLUG's new bylaws, whenever you all decide to
write those.  But, for now, failing the existence of any rules saying
I can't do that, I'm doing that - I'll simply be appointing two new
officers, ASAP.

This is a "first come first serve" offer, pretty much, with the
exception of the "competency" requirement.

So, if ANY of you - active volunteers, active members, and even
inactive members... would like to try your hand at running the show,
by all means, compose an email and send it to me.  This is not up for
discussion; I've thought this through quite thoroughly, and I plan to
take this course of action as soon as the opportunity presents itself.

I wish my successor, whoever that may be, the best of luck in dealing
with Mr. Moen and the remaining other problematic volunteers within
SVLUG who've refused to go away, and refused to refrain from "helping"
SVLUG even after being shown how their ongoing behaviour has been
detrimental to the group.

I guess no-one can fire an SVLUG volunteer, huh?  That really needs to
go into the bylaws, too, unless it's false, in which case the
procedure for it needs to be documented really well, so that people
don't feel they're being unfairly targetted when they're simply being
dismissed from service as volunteers for _whatever_ reasons.

I think, for one, "Hurting more than you're helping" surely qualifies
as a reason for dismissing a volunteer.  I'm sure there will be other
metrics which similarly will warrant that course of action.

In any event... my work here at SVLUG is very nearly done.  I've at
this point given up entirely on implementing any of my planned
educational initiatives within SVLUG, and will quite soon be out of
all of your hair.  There are other much more receptive venues for the
sorts of educational initiatives I'm implementing; I'll avail myself
of those rather than trying to force-fit SVLUG into the mold of a
mature, educationally-focused organization.

May you all somehow get things within SVLUG working exactly how you
personally perceive that they should, regardless of the stated desires
of any and all past, current and future officers.

Indeed - let chaos reign!  SVLUG is best served by bullheaded people
who aren't listening to their elected leaders since they're too busy
complaining loudly about how those same leaders are not listening to

Go team!  Good luck with everything, guys!

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Rick Moen <rick at linuxmafia.com>
Date: Dec 20, 2007 6:00 PM
Subject: Re: vacation
To: Paul Reiber <reiber at gmail.com>

Quoting Paul Reiber (reiber at gmail.com):

> Can I count on you for mailman list admin while I'm gone for the
> holidays?

My suggestion (which should solve that problem for you, permanently):

Along with other members of the Web Team, I resume mailing list admin,
applying technical management and only the policies documented on our
Web pages.  In doing so, those admins answer to you and to your
eventual VP.  (Their positions are at least theoretically appointive,
they must answer to the elected officers.)  Any listadmin action by
anyone is fair game for questioning and discussion on Volunteers.

The part involving you is that you act _through_ the listadmins rather
than directly.  If you have a problem with what's going on with the
lists, you don't just bypass the listadmins and take direct action,
not on-list and not in private mail.  Instead, you talk to the admins,
and ask them to do what's needed.  (If the posted policies call for
action, I expect they'd do it.)  If you're unhappy with the listadmins,
you can replace them.  (They're appointive.)

The key part is you agreeing to act through the listadmins, rather than
acting as one and (e.g.) inventing new rules on the fly.  If you agree,
then your listadmin problem can cease today, and not just during your

I would _not_ make any issue about this agreement in public.  The
understanding would remain private (unless you wish otherwise).

Just say "OK", and you're done.  ;->

(Note:  Because I currently am reportedly not in /etc/sudoers and don't
have the current root password, there are a few Mailman-related things
can't do, such as restarting qrunner if it dies again, or relaunching
exim4.  If anything like that is needed, at present, I'll have to
telephone Lisa, or Daniel, or Mark W., or whoever.  Other than that, I
can handle anything else I can imagine being needed.)

By the way, Merry Christmas, and have a good time in Brazil.

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