[svlug] Plurality voting via " STV "

[bruce coston]

Don't do that ! 
 " STV " is a misidentification of Instant Runoff Voting ; A method notorious for various defects caused by ignoring the presence of stronger majorities whenever the first choices contain any majority . Please find an algorithm that meets " Lesser iia " as that shows a good compromise in the limits inherent in all preference ballots according to arrows theorem . I like the condorcet compliant MAMCALC tool . Good job using preference ballots as they reveal so much more than plain plurality . 

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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: svlug election stuff - next community directions (Rick Moen)
   2. Re: svlug election stuff - next community directions (Rick Moen)
   3. Re: svlug election stuff - 1hr perl jobbie (Alvin Oga)
   4. San Jose State University LUG - Network Security Tutorial
      9/21 - Speakers? (Keith Callenberg)
   5. Re: svlug election stuff - 1hr perl jobbie (Rick Moen)
   6. new svlug system (Alvin Oga)
   7. Re: svlug election stuff - 1hr perl jobbie (Alvin Oga)
From: Rick Moen <rick at linuxmafia.com>
Subject: Re: [svlug] svlug election stuff - next community directions
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2006 20:42:52 -0700
To: svlug at lists.svlug.org

 Quoting Alvin Oga (alvin at Mail.Linux-Consulting.com):

> - what i could find about Pres/VP stuff
> 
>  http://svlug.org/cgi-bin/stv/svlug-pres-term-2004
>  - somebody needs to update that voting script to take the
>  voting since the folks at sbay.org is not here this time around 
>  to do the voting and tallying

If someone Perl-proficient wants to try that, I'd say it'd need to be
tested and verified in the next couple of weeks; otherwise, we'd be
smarter to just do the obvious and use lower-tech but less fussy methods.

> - i do not know why there is no searchable svlug archives
>   for "officer's duties" and functions and responsibilities and 
>   description etc
> 
>  - i know it all existed at one time

If you can find anything (e.g., via Internet Archive) that's been lost,
please point me to it, and I'll re-add that content.  I've gone minutely
through the machine, and have brought back from obscurity a whole lot of 
pages that (I think) accidentally had gotten de-linked at some point.  I 
don't know of any that still need revival at this point.

Of course, there _were_ some subtrees that I wrote off as non-useful,
obsolete, etc.  I wish I could remember what-all, but don't have a
list handy.  




From: Rick Moen <rick at linuxmafia.com>
Subject: Re: [svlug] svlug election stuff - next community directions
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2006 21:00:03 -0700
To: svlug at lists.svlug.org

 Quoting Lord Sauron (lordsauronthegreat at gmail.com):

> If you don't mind some random teenager looking at it, I know PHP 
> (assuming it's PHP - CGI just confuses me).

The traditional setup's indeed a CGI:  We've used Ian Kluft's "Vote::STV"
Perl module, most recently v. 0.4 (http://ian.kluft.com/opensource/code/) 
and implementing the "Fractional STV"[1] voting algorithm.  Licence terms
are GPLv2.  Coding style's pretty clean and straight-forward.

Since only once has SVLUG ever had a contested election, and that was a
straight-up two-party race, using preference-voting mechanisms strikes
me as massive overkill.  (Yes, Bruce, I can hear you getting restless
from my saying that, but using complicated voting methods for very
simple and almost never contested elections still seems bizarre, to me.)

Not that this tells you much, but the working copy on our server lives
at /home/httpd/cgi-bin/stv on the local filesystem, and is 696 lines
long, so I won't reproduce it here.

[1] http://www.barnsdle.demon.co.uk/vote/fracSTV.html
http://www.cfer.org/learn/gloss.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_transferable_vote


From: Alvin Oga <alvin at mail.Linux-Consulting.com>
Subject: Re: [svlug] svlug election stuff - 1hr perl jobbie
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2006 21:06:21 -0700 (PDT)
To: svlug at lists.svlug.org

 
hi ya rick

> Rick Moen wrote:
> 
> Quoting Alvin Oga (alvin at Mail.Linux-Consulting.com):
> 
> > - what i could find about Pres/VP stuff
> > 
> >  http://svlug.org/cgi-bin/stv/svlug-pres-term-2004
> >  - somebody needs to update that voting script to take the
> >  voting since the folks at sbay.org is not here this time around 
> >  to do the voting and tallying
> 
> If someone Perl-proficient wants to try that, I'd say it'd need to be
> tested and verified in the next couple of weeks; otherwise, we'd be
> smarter to just do the obvious and use lower-tech but less fussy methods.

k .. we'll give it a week for "perl coder" to step up to do the
voting script .... and after than you'll(aka somebody) be doing it :-)

 - mark/paul ( the coder and the candidates ) shouldn't do this code
 ( conflict of interest )

it should be about 1hr to modify the hamburger/rsvp code to be the
election voting  code ... ( simpler code is probably better )

which brings up a point ...

 - if code has been written for svlug in the past,
 and was made publicly available ... who owns it now ??

 ( eg .. look for the copyright notices on the scripts )

 - eg, currently i think the webpages still uses some code
 to fetch daily headlines from various sources for the
 Linux News section at the bottom of the page

 - i see a bunch of scripts in /cgi-bin/ ... oh my ..
 there goes a bunch of hrs down the drain if one wants
 to tweek it around ..

 - copyright notices on /cgi-bin/ scripts is a potential
 problem for everybody

- most of the work will be the svlug look-n-feel of the pages

whomever wants to do the voting scripts and result stuff should
email volunteers at lists.svlug.org and volunteer and you'll get setup
but since it is time sensitive, there will be deadlines

> >  - i know it all existed at one time
> 
> If you can find anything (e.g., via Internet Archive) that's been lost,

but i donno where it is or what it was called which makes it hard to go
looking for it .. its also unimportant

> please point me to it, and I'll re-add that content.  I've gone minutely
> through the machine, and have brought back from obscurity a whole lot of 
> pages that (I think) accidentally had gotten de-linked at some point.  I 
> don't know of any that still need revival at this point.

good  .. good to keep archives ..

c ya
alvin



From: Keith Callenberg <kcallenb at email.sjsu.edu>
Subject: [svlug] San Jose State University LUG - Network Security Tutorial
 9/21 - Speakers?
Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2006 21:26:16 -0700
To: svlug at lists.svlug.org

 The San Jose State University Linux Users Group (SJSULUG) will be 
holding a Network Security Tutorial on Thursday, September 21 from 3pm 
to 4pm in the Student Union. The topics we currently have planned are 
iptables configuration and the use of portscanning to detect vulnerable 
systems.

I realize that it's very last minute, but we'd love to expand this 
tutorial with an additional speaker if anyone's interested. Our target 
audience is made up of mostly new Linux users, so the presentation 
wouldn't need to be very elaborate. A few areas that'd be great to have 
someone speak about are packet monitoring, TCP wrappers, and IP Sec.

If you're interested in speaking but won't be able to make it on this 
short notice, we're also considering turning this into a series by 
continuing the following Thursday or in two weeks. In either case, if 
you're interested, please let us know asap by either email or the 
contact form on the site below.

For the location and more details about the group, please see our site 
at http://www.sjsulug.org/

The SJSULUG holds weekly meetings on Thursdays at 3pm, and periodic 
tutorials and installfests.

Thanks!

--
Keith Callenberg
kcallenb at email dot sjsu.edu
Vice President, San Jose State University Linux Users Group
http://www.sjsulug.org/







From: Rick Moen <rick at linuxmafia.com>
Subject: Re: [svlug] svlug election stuff - 1hr perl jobbie
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 01:31:09 -0700
To: svlug at lists.svlug.org

 Quoting Alvin Oga (alvin at mail.Linux-Consulting.com):

> k .. we'll give it a week for "perl coder" to step up to do the
> voting script .... and after than you'll(aka somebody) be doing it :-)

Honestly, you already have the script.  It's just configuration.

As an example, here's /home/httpd/lib/stv/archive/restaurant.votedef ,
the control file from a poll, at one point, to determine where we'd have
our post-meeting restaurant gathering:

# definitions for test vote file
# global attributes
name=Where Do We Eat After the SVLUG Meeting?

# voting choices
# lines contain: key description
DENNYS-M        Denny's, Calaveras Blvd (near 880), Milpitas
DENNYS-SC       Denny's, Bowers Ave (near 101), Santa Clara
PEPPERMILL      Peppermill, Lakeside Dr (near 101), Santa Clara
IHOP            Int'l House of Pancakes, Great America Pkwy (near 101), Santa Clara
BENNIGANS       Bennigan's, Great America Pkwy (near 101), Santa Clara
BKSQ            Baker's Square, Calaveras Blvd (near 880), Milpitas
MARIECAL        Marie Callender's, Calaveras Blvd (near 880), Milpitas
CARLS-TASMAN    Carl's Jr, Tasman Dr (near Cisco), Santa Clara


There was also a /home/httpd/lib/stv/archive/restaurant.votes file,
where people's votes were recorded by the CGI, when submitted.   E.g.,
here's the line recording Nick Moffitt's vote, as I'm reasonably certain
he won't mind my disclosing it: 

nick at zork.net dockmaster.usfca.edu 19980518115916 IHOP PEPPERMILL DENNYS-SC DENNYS-M MARIECAL BKSQ


"restaurant.desc" in the same directory defined the issue in HTML:

[Voting is closed on this subject - results are available.  Please suggest
another topic if you'd like to.]

Where would you prefer to eat (as a group) after the SVLUG meeting?
The choices are (in no particular order):


   Denny's, Calaveras Blvd (near 880), Milpitas (open 24 hours)

   Denny's, Bowers Ave (near 101), Santa Clara (open 24 hours)

   Peppermill, Lakeside Dr (near 101), Santa Clara (open 24 hours)

   Baker's Square, Calaveras Blvd (near 880), Milpitas (closes 11PM)

   Marie Callender's, Calaveras Blvd (near 880), Milpitas (closes 11PM)

   Bennigan's, Great America Pkwy (near 101), Santa Clara (closes 2AM)

   Int'l House of Pancakes, Great America Pkwy (near 101), Santa Clara 
(closes 11PM)

   Carl's Jr., Tasman Dr (near Cisco), Santa Clara (closes midnight)


We request that the only people voting are those who expect they might
attend the after-meeting dinner/social.  (If you're itching to try this
out, suggest another voting topic.)



I personally doubt anyone's going to run with this, but I could be
wrong, and will be glad to assist _in the sense of arranging access_ 
anyone wanting to.


> it should be about 1hr to modify the hamburger/rsvp code to be the
> election voting  code ... ( simpler code is probably better )

Cool!  Run with it.  ;->


> which brings up a point ...
> 
>  - if code has been written for svlug in the past,
>  and was made publicly available ... who owns it now ??

There's absolutely no question, either legally or morally:  The
author (Ian) owns copyright automatically.  "Work for hire" rules could
not apply even if he were paid.  (Long story; can give you the legal
cites.)

Copyright ownership is not a problem in any event; it's open source.  
Use it and be grateful for the author's public spiritedness -- for those
people for whom preferential-voting algorithms are honestly a big thing.

>  - copyright notices on /cgi-bin/ scripts is a potential
>  problem for everybody

No, not really.  You really don't want to start that discussion right
now, I think, especially among net.random computer geeks with little or
no actual knowledge of copyright law, but there are multiple reasons why
this is not a problem.



From: Alvin Oga <alvin at mail.Linux-Consulting.com>
Subject: [svlug] new svlug system
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 01:41:40 -0700 (PDT)
To: svlug at lists.svlug.org

 
hi ya svlug'erz

==
== another (crazy) idea 
==

- im wondering and sitting here nervously and
  with itchy fingers to fix up the existing box

  however, we have no backup and no 2nd svlug.org server yet

///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
- would anybody out in svlug world care that we take it
  down for an hr or two to rebuild a new distro onto a new disk
///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

 - the machine was previously offline from say 4pm - midnight
 on sat while it lost it's "juice" ( power ) :-)
  
  and than restore the current html pages and mail archives

 - i'll throw in a freebie ( a new 300GB disk ) from fries

 i'd be worried about it's reliability if i was you
 for anything one buys from fries which is the whole
 point of buying at fries.. it's cheap and convenient

 - normally we/i buy disks by the "case" (20-40 at a time )
 from distributors where reseller permits is required

- it'd be great if we can do this on tue night ... 10pm pst ??

 - we can than create the bind9 name.conf files for
   its own dns too and update svlug.org with the proper
   dns info for itself

- the current machine surprisingly survived lots of attacks
  so those that had built, config'd and defined it did a good job

  however, from what everybody hears and agrees, it is no longer
  maintainable and "upgradable" to add new features/functions

 eg ...  ( not to hide info .. )

 it's woody .. but i'd assume its corrupt db since
 everybody says its "un-maintainable" and bind can't
 be installed ( i donno .. i;d like to try after we have
 a separate working system )

 it has gr-sec for those that didn't know

 it has ippl .. which is a 2-second solution to know where
 all connection comes from

 there seems to be otp but i don't think it's working right
 since i can use the same pwd more than once to get in :-)

- this new system build will be done by "experienced" installers
  instead of newbies due to the nature of the machine and 
  hardened accordingly

 - how you want it hardened can be discussed/polite-flamebait
 so everybody can learn what is "hardening" etc

c ya
alvin


From: Alvin Oga <alvin at mail.Linux-Consulting.com>
Subject: Re: [svlug] svlug election stuff - 1hr perl jobbie
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 01:48:55 -0700 (PDT)
To: svlug at lists.svlug.org

 
hi ya rick

> Rick Moen wrote:
> 
> Quoting Alvin Oga (alvin at mail.Linux-Consulting.com):
> 
> > k .. we'll give it a week for "perl coder" to step up to do the
> > voting script .... and after than you'll(aka somebody) be doing it :-)
> 
> Honestly, you already have the script.  It's just configuration.
 
sometimes learning to configure the app takes just as long as 
writing the code from scratch :-)

 - i'm the idiot tha always wants to build "it" in-house
 vs buying from outside 

> I personally doubt anyone's going to run with this, but I could be
> wrong, and will be glad to assist _in the sense of arranging access_ 
> anyone wanting to.
 
lets see who wants to come and play ..

> >  - copyright notices on /cgi-bin/ scripts is a potential
> >  problem for everybody
> 
> No, not really.  You really don't want to start that discussion right
> now, I think, especially among net.random computer geeks with little or
> no actual knowledge of copyright law, but there are multiple reasons why
> this is not a problem.

nah... and that'd probably apply to me too and i am always listening
to legal thingie ma jigs... 
 - is it me or is the license-discuss list fairly quiet lately 

c ya
alvin



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