[svlug] Linux an "upstart"?

James Leone linuxcpa at netscape.net
Fri Jul 18 18:31:45 PDT 2003



ddhummel at pacbell.net wrote:

 >On Fri, Jul 18, 2003 at 02:51:38PM -0700, James Leone wrote:
 >
 >
 >>Thanks to Samba, its far from upstart in server space.
 >>
 >>
 >
 >Samba runs on other *nixes as well, and doesn't have much to do with the
 >maturity of Linux.
 >
My focus is on tools available for Linux. I am not interested in trying
other Unix.

 > I think Bill was referring to Linux's maturity as a
 >bona fide OS, not it's ability to integrate with MS systems.
 >
I added that aspect to the discussion, because it makes for a more
meaningful analysis of the situation.

 >Nonetheless, I'm amazed and amused by some of the stuff people write
 >about Linux.  My favorite of late was this:
 >
 >http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/zd/20030715/tc_zd/44774
 >
 >where Mr. Eric Nee of CIO Insight proclaims that Linux is a "nascent and
 >vulnerable operating system",
 >
I don't find that shocking at all.

We already know that not many people here think that Linux should be
used on the desktop in business.  To me it sounds like he's doing Linux
desktop users a favor by spinning the momentum into a reality that Linux
is destined to move into the desktop and Microsoft is making desparate
moves to cut it at the heel. The SCO suit is an attack and does make us
vulnerable.

 >and no this was not an opinion piece.
 >Where have these people been for the last few years?
 >
Struggling to use Linux on our desktops

 >  Do they do any
 >research before they write?
 >
I have, with a whole range of success, failure and hope.

 >>Windows is easy to use.
 >>
 >>
 >
 >Yes, so easy that it requires very little knowledge of what your are
 >actually configuring.
 >
That's the whole idea.

 > Not so easy any more when that thing breaks,
 >
Just reinstall.  I am also told that XP breaks rarely.

I have spent more time figuring things out how to set things up in Linux
than I would have reinstalling windows twice as much as I did before.

 >and the nice gui configuration tool does not provide any usable facility
 >
I ususally only see non useful or broken GUI's in Linux.

 > for troubleshooting or fixing it, and the option simply doesn't exist 
in the
 >cmd.exe.
 >
 >>I want an alternative that is just as easy to use.
 >>
 >>
 >
 >OK, but don't you think that once you've actually taken the time to
 >learn how to configure and use a certain program/package/technology in
 >Linux, it becomes straightforward and relatively _easy_ to do it again?
 >
In some cases yes, it is easy, just copy over your configuration files.
I do that.

However, the answer is no, for many Linux applications.

 >>However, Linux is a mess in other areas of server space.
 >>
 >>
 >
 >I'm curious, can you provide some examples of what you are talking
 >about?
 >
 >
Well, lets take the web based mail and calandering applications as an
example.

I tried so many of these, most of them not working, that I lost count.

So many that I have 0 faith in any of them working, exception being
SuSE's OpenExchange Server.

I have tried:

phpgroupware (Unclear as to how this works)
timesheet.php (Installs but doesn't work)
Mozilla calander (Never seemed to work)
Projekt (calander works, but not the billing or time entry)
Qmail (Used to work - now it doesn't now I have to read a Novel Life
with Qmail to get it to work)
Squirrelmail (IMAP never works)
IMAP (See squirrelmail)

Time to stop.


James Leone


 >David Hummel
 >Genomics & Gene Discovery
 >WRRC/ARS/USDA
 >
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 >svlug at lists.svlug.org
 >http://lists.svlug.org/lists/listinfo/svlug
 >
 >

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