[svlug] Linux an "upstart"?

Karl Larsen k5di at msn.com
Wed Aug 6 05:50:12 PDT 2003

	Linux has been around for over ten years. As a desktop for Joe 
User it is not in the same class with Windows. Windows has a huge number 
of drivers that work with most hardware up to the latest printer and 

	With Linux you must search for drivers on the web. Loading Linux 
is now much easier than it was. If only Linux is on the machine it's 
easy to set up the hard drive. But Windows has always been easy to load. 

	As for "versions" of Linux this is more a selection of software 
loaders than new systems. Debian is "Hard" because there is very little 
documentation and what is there is not good. SUSE has the best loader 
and this makes new User's happy. I like Red Hat because they have the 
best documentation on RPM, the RH loader.

	I was happy to find the Open Office Org software installed. Now 
when someone sends me stuff in Micosoft Office format I can convert it 
to ascii and read it with joe. And then answer with joe and convert it 
back to Microsoft Office...:-)

On Sat, 19 Jul 2003, James Leone wrote:

> steve at itsage.com wrote:
> >
> > Hi James,
> >
> >  Seems like you've had quite a challenge with your linux endevours.  
> Just being honest here folks.  I have had a lot of success ans a lot of 
> challanges.
> > If I recall correctly, you mentioned having a couple of year of linux 
> > experience. Honest question here: do you really think it would have 
> > been different on _any_ other OS ?
> Yes.
> Its all about having intuitive software.

	No. It's about having fully developed software that loads easy 
and works every time, and has good documentation.

> >   Do you think it would have been any easier to keep an Exchange cluster 
> Well, I am talking desktop here....I don't really know what a cluster 
> is...and my colleagues, the other five of the Joe Six Pack gang, don't 
> really know either....
> > running(again, honest question)?  
> Honest answer, probably more difficult to set up an MS Exchange 
> "cluster" ... but I have _no_ experience with that, I am just going by 
> what I have read. I _do_ have experience with Linux desktop use.
	This is a common problem on this LUG list. There are many who 
make their living using Linux. They want to show how powerful Linux is, 
and it IS powerful. Also as a Desktop home user I was sure glad my Linux 
has sendmail. $Microsoft$ is my ISP because they were the least 
expensive high speed Internet source. They have lots of help but when 
you tell them you do not have a butterfly on your screen, and I have 4 
screens on my Linux they say "we do not support linux". So I found on 
the web software to pop my e-mail from a Hotmail server, and use 
sendmail as my SMTP server.  

> > Most of the guys I know doing server side stuff on MS servers have 5+ 
> > years on the job. Many have proffessional training.
> Different focus here really.  On the server side I have little 
> experience....Desktop use should require no training, it should be the 
> community's goal.

	Agree the Desktop should be able to load on any computer by a 9 
year old girl. It isn't there yet.

> > I think that the 'hype' of computers is still way ahead of the 
> > reality. Computers might be 'easy to use', but they are far from 'easy 
> > to setup'. 
> I am going off of personal experience, not hype. And I know without an 
> ounce of doubt that Windows is easier to use. However, I am hell bent on 
> using Linux instead because I admire the way it has been developed, and 
> the ethics behind it.
> > Just like some cars are 'easy' to tinker with but you still need a 
> > mechanic from time to time.
> Way different in my opinion. You can't make a gui for an auto!
> > BTW - if you feel like giving it one last shot, 
> I've wasted a number of hours of my own free time on IMAP, Squirrelmail, 
> et al, that its really nothing I want to get into. Apache works great, 
> Cross Over Office works great, but the rest of that stuff is just 
> vaporware to me.
	Call it software you do not know how to load properly. I have 
several of those on Red Hat version 8

> I should have added Spamassassin and the MTA's as good and solid server 
> apps. Yes those work with some reasonable ease.
> > I can tell you from experience that Cyrus IMAP, SquirrelMail, Postfix, 
> > and SpamAssassin all play together nicely on my Debian machines. Oh!, 
> > Debian has great package installation/configuration stuff.  
> I took a look at the Debian installer, and I have to disagree with you. 
> :) I use apt in SuSE, I don't want to use the older packages in Debian.
> > Not pretty, not flashy - but generally VERY thorough.  I have to warn 
> > ya though -
> > Debian installs can be a PITA if you've never done one before, and it 
> > takes a good month to get used to how debian works. 
> That's just an example of my point, for the desktop, Linux is upstart.
	A poor word upstart. Just say Linux needs more work on the 
desktop version. But many of us have loaded and become happy with Linux 
as a desktop. 

> James Leone
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               - Karl Larsen k5di Las Cruces,NM Az ScQRPions -

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