[svlug] RH dependencies, not using up2date

Karsten M. Self kmself at ix.netcom.com
Fri Jul 26 03:04:15 PDT 2002

Please don't cc me on list mail.

on Fri, Jul 26, 2002, Rafael Skodlar,,, (raffi at linwin.com) wrote:
> On Fri, Jul 26, 2002 at 12:27:25AM -0700, Karsten M. Self wrote:
> > on Thu, Jul 25, 2002, Rafael Skodlar,,, (raffi at linwin.com) wrote:
> > > On Thu, Jul 25, 2002 at 02:11:51PM -0700, Marc MERLIN wrote:


> > > For that reason I decided to give Debian another try. I too want to be
> > > a "lazy sysadmin" and use one line commands to install software.
> > > Debian failed to work on my hardware earlier where RH and Mandrake
> > > would install without major problems. Now that Debian 3.0 is out I
> > > started to convert some critical systems to Debian. I have routers,
> > > NFS servers etc. running on Debian just fine. Initial install takes
> > > less than 100MB of disk space which speaks for itself.
> > 
> > 100 MiB?  My initial install takes ~51 mIb -- untarring the
> > base2_2.tgz image *is* a working Debian system.
> My claim of "less than 100MB" is not necessarily 100% over your claim.
> It was a simple guess not remembering exact numbers.


Don't take that too much to heart.  It's rare that I install into less
than ~200-250 MiB, and for a full-featured system, /usr tends to run
around 3 GiB (1.7 of which are currently used on this laptop).  But yes,
you can get a small system going.  For a really pared down system, one
of the bootdisk utilities is recommended, as package management
(including list and deb storage) is significant overhead.

> > > In order to learn more about Debian I subscribed to 6 Debian
> > > lists.  Due to high level of spam on their mailing lists I dropped
> > > 3 right away.  Mention that on one of their lists and you'll draw
> > > flames and useless "filter solution" suggestions from "Debian
> > > bigots". 
> > 
> > Which lists?
> > 
> > Those filter solutions -- particularly if they refer to
> > spamassassin, are hardly useless.  This catches 95%+ of my daily
> > spam, and passes 99.98% of the legitimate mail I get.  I'd
> > reevaluate your response.
> Any filtering is "after the fact"!!! I don't want the smelly camel
> nose under my tent.

This too depends.  Depending on your mail feed, there are various
reject-on-SMPT-connect options.  I'm happy automatically filtering my
spam and automatically sending most of it to Marc ;-)

> > Google groups doesn't show any of your posts (matching on 'rafael'
> > and/or 'skodlar') in muc.lists.debian.*
> It was under debian-security if I remember correctly.

OK.  Just checking.

> > > My impression was that they are nontolerant elitist group that doesn't
> > > want around anybody that's not religious fanatic like them. To me the
> > > OS is only a tool to do my work more efficiently and debian seem to
> > > fit that description.
> > 
> > Yadda, yadda.  All stripes, Raffie, all stripes.  Deal with it.  And
> > don't tell me you haven't heard of Snobbian.
> Well it was a bit weird when they told me to "go back to Redhat".

I'll have to dig up that exchange.  I mean, it's not as if we've ever
had spats here....

> > Debian _does_ differ from most mainstream GNU/Linux distros in that
> > philosophy matters (Social Contract, FSD, Debian Policy), to very
> > good effect, I might add.  The only comperable distribution of any
> > sort I know is OpenBSD (goal, philosophy, and licensing guidelines),
> > and, well, Theo's just _so_ much warmer and fuzzier than your
> > typical Dweebian....
> That's all fine. I don't want to talk them down on this list since they
> do Lords work ;-)
> > Debian's a way solid distro, the list support is among the best I've
> > seen bar any mode for any software.
> I'm not arguing that. It's just that their mailing lists are open to
> relaying spam. I can't remember when we received last spam on this
> list.

SVLUG's closed to nonsubscribers, most of the Debian lists are open.
There *is* filtering on the Debian lists (possibly varying coverage by
list, it's been implemented over the past 6-9 months).  This is to allow
people to post to the list even if they're not subscribed -- it's a
trade-off.  You're not seeing relays per se, just abuse of list mail.  A
spammer can't mail to arbitrary destinations, only to a list's
subscribers.  It's a hassle of the 'Net, I maintain a few lists, and
even the ones that *do* see traffic (there are a couple of mostly dead
projects I'm still sitting on) see a significant amount of spam -- which
yours truly, list admin, gets to reject it.


Karsten M. Self <kmself at ix.netcom.com>        http://kmself.home.netcom.com/
 What Part of "Gestalt" don't you understand?
   Übersoft:  If We're Not Rich, You're Not Gullible.
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