[svlug] RH dependencies, not using up2date

Rafael Skodlar,,, raffi at linwin.com
Fri Jul 26 01:34:16 PDT 2002

On Fri, Jul 26, 2002 at 12:27:25AM -0700, Karsten M. Self wrote:
> on Thu, Jul 25, 2002, Rafael Skodlar,,, (raffi at linwin.com) wrote:
> > On Thu, Jul 25, 2002 at 02:11:51PM -0700, Marc MERLIN wrote:
> > > Ok, so I have to use Red Hat, and basically, all I can say is that in the
> > > 3.5 years I haven't touched it, it's not gotten much better.
> > > I've been working with RH 7.3 here
> > Like everybody else I to go through the same RPM hell at work since
> > our customers use Redhat. While trying to setup decent workstation for
> > compiling OS stuff I run into all kinds of dependencies problems.
> > Wasting a lot of time I usualy give up after forth or fifth dependent
> > RPM fails to install. It was better in RH5.2 days.
> I too used RH 4.2 - 5.2, then switched largely to Debian.  I've been

Good old days when almost all software compiled and rpms did not fail
as much as they do now.

> around RH shops but have avoided heavy dealings with it until this
> January.  It's hellish, and I don't really have substantial answers to
> Marc's questions.  It's interesting to see experiences here.

It's unfortunate but it's true. After so many years one would expect
improvements instead of advertizing for comercial support during
installation which perhaps fails in some modes intensionaly.

> > There was an article on the web somewhere about RPM dependencies
> > problems recently. It's getting worse by the month and I'm not the only 
> > one noticing this. I tried all kinds of rpm tools but they are not ready
> > for prime time yet.
> That's my read.
> > For that reason I decided to give Debian another try. I too want to be
> > a "lazy sysadmin" and use one line commands to install software.
> > Debian failed to work on my hardware earlier where RH and Mandrake
> > would install without major problems. Now that Debian 3.0 is out I
> > started to convert some critical systems to Debian. I have routers,
> > NFS servers etc. running on Debian just fine. Initial install takes
> > less than 100MB of disk space which speaks for itself.
> 100 MiB?  My initial install takes ~51 mIb -- untarring the base2_2.tgz
> image *is* a working Debian system.

My claim of "less than 100MB" is not necessarily 100% over your claim.
It was a simple guess not remembering exact numbers.

> > In order to learn more about Debian I subscribed to 6 Debian lists.
> > Due to high level of spam on their mailing lists I dropped 3 right
> > away.  Mention that on one of their lists and you'll draw flames and
> > useless "filter solution" suggestions from "Debian bigots". 
> Which lists?
> Those filter solutions -- particularly if they refer to spamassassin,
> are hardly useless.  This catches 95%+ of my daily spam, and passes
> 99.98% of the legitimate mail I get.  I'd reevaluate your response.

Any filtering is "after the fact"!!! I don't want the smelly camel nose
under my tent.

> Google groups doesn't show any of your posts (matching on 'rafael'
> and/or 'skodlar') in muc.lists.debian.*

It was under debian-security if I remember correctly.

> > My impression was that they are nontolerant elitist group that doesn't
> > want around anybody that's not religious fanatic like them. To me the
> > OS is only a tool to do my work more efficiently and debian seem to
> > fit that description.
> Yadda, yadda.  All stripes, Raffie, all stripes.  Deal with it.  And
> don't tell me you haven't heard of Snobbian.

Well it was a bit weird when they told me to "go back to Redhat".

> Debian _does_ differ from most mainstream GNU/Linux distros in that
> philosophy matters (Social Contract, FSD, Debian Policy), to very good
> effect, I might add.  The only comperable distribution of any sort I
> know is OpenBSD (goal, philosophy, and licensing guidelines), and, well,
> Theo's just _so_ much warmer and fuzzier than your typical Dweebian....

That's all fine. I don't want to talk them down on this list since they
do Lords work ;-)

> Debian's a way solid distro, the list support is among the best I've
> seen bar any mode for any software.

I'm not arguing that. It's just that their mailing lists are open to
relaying spam. I can't remember when we received last spam on this

> Cheers.
> -- 
> Karsten M. Self <kmself at ix.netcom.com>        http://kmself.home.netcom.com/
>  What Part of "Gestalt" don't you understand?
>    Support the EFF, they support you:  http://www.eff.org/

One way or the other, dealing with RPMs is still better than DLLs.


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