[svlug] Writing start-up scripts...

[Rafael]

On Sat, 17 Mar 2001, Dagmar d'Surreal wrote:

> On Fri, 16 Mar 2001, Rafael wrote:
> 
> > > I should add a little more commentary to this, since I don't quite agree
> > > with this point.  RedHat is definitely what I would consider 'edge'

After all these years only those who are afraid of RedHat distribution
consider it 'edge' at this point.

...............
> > > /etc/sysconfig hierarchy's implementation by linuxconf to be abysmally
> > > bad.
> > 
> > So far we agree that /etc/sysconfig hierarchy sucks.
> 
> No, we don't.  I think it's a good idea that RedHat didn't get right.  You
> seem to think the entire idea sucks.

OK, so we don't agree. It all depends which leg you stepped on this
morning huh?

"I think it's a good idea that RedHat didn't get right"  Hmmm! Logic?

> > > They WERE onto a good idea with the /etc/sysconfig directory, IMHO.  
> > 
> > Don't agree here. File hierachy comes to mind. sysconfig implies system
> > configuration but we have separate directories for Samba, X,
> 
> You seem to be under the impression that what you have determined "system
> configuration" means is the only possible meaning for it.  From what

If you carefuly ready your previous comments you have to come to the
conclusion that you're confused.

I never claimed that the idea about file hierachy or any other OS related
stuff is mine. I (do) know what would make it easier for (occassional)
administrators if nothing else.

> you've said so far it looks like you believe that the configuration for
> every single piece of the system must be configured through there.
> 
> Guess what.  This ain't Windows.  Regardless of what the KDE people have
               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Really? What else is out there?

> been gearing up for, the entire system doesn't need of be treated as one

Ah, now we are after "KDE people"...

> atomic element, particuarly since it's designed by a whole bunch of
> different people who have differing ideas about how things should be done.

Different people? Could they all agree to use same configuration scheme so
that scripts would be easier to write, maintain, and backup? Or would it
be better to use *.cf, *.conf, conf.* *.cfg, all with different
formatting (spaces, tabs, [], {}, ?) I'm surprized you accept ASSKEE.

> I feel it's fallacious to even attempt to force them all to use one
> technique for specifying configurations.  The best I aim for is that each

By the same reasoning we should allow people to use their own protocols to
connect their applications across the network instead of using a
compromise, RFCed perhaps. Man, you are perfect match for MS. They'll love
it.

> atomic subsystem be reasonably self-contained enough to not interfere with
> the rest.  
> 
> And before you nitpick further, by atomic subsystem I mean things like
> the CIFS subsystem, the RPC subsystem, the Graphical Display subsystem,
> etc.
> 
> > smb.conf
> > /etc/vga 
> > /etc/cron* <--- !!!
> > /etc/filesystems
> > /etc/usb
> > 
> > and on and on.
> > 
> > Whole /etc is a mess mainly based on historical reasons but Linux should
> > not suffer from that.
> 
> Too late. 

You easily give up.

>  
> > .....
> > 
> > and everything related to a particular function in a directory under /etc.
> 
> Good luck getting the entire world to do what you say.

But the world should stop when you have a problem with setting up 3 or 5
ethernet interfaces? Maybe all distributions should stop the (CD) presses
to include fix for your special 5 interface design.

> 
> PCMCIA seems fairly well self-contained to me under /etc/pcmcia so I don't
> mess with it.  XFree86 has traditionally been pretty hostile, but 4.x
> neatly places things in /etc/X11R6 now.

Now you like it now you don't.

....................
> > 
> > and have a script that reads that file. In reality there is no need for
> > broadcast specification since it can be obtained from IP and netmask with
> > ipcalc.
> 
> Of course if you want to change a network card, or turn off a particular

I have no need for such things, turning ethernet on and off on a daily
basis. After the systems are setup I leave them run as the creator
intended.

Switching network card (PCMCIA on my laptop for example) configuration
from one state to another is handled with a single script/command and a
directory of files for each net on my system.

net [home|customer_1|customer_2|customer_x]

> interface, your idea of hard-coding all of it into one shell script
> quickly turns into a big piece of poo that can't be used anymore.

I never claimed that bootup should be handled by one script. I do maintain
that the networking section of bootup process should be handled by one,
human readable script that reads a config file with sections for
individual interfaces.

Apparently you want to break that into different files like RH does and
you are welcome to do it.

> 
> If you've got configuration tokens for each interface stuffed into their
> own files and subdirectories, things can actually be managed in easily
> reduceable steps.

If you can handle only scripts that call a bunch of other scripts then
yes. Not sure how messy RH "network" script is acceptable to you.

It was YOUR comment that started it not mine.

Repeated:
> > >/etc/sysconfig hierarchy's implementation by linuxconf to be abysmally
> > > bad.

You just like to argue for the sake of arguing.
> 
> And by the way, real men don't waste time with ipcalc.  They use CIDR
> addressing and do their calculations based on that.

Well, we have people who use buldozers to move the dirt but you are
welcome to use a shovel and a wheelbarrow. We used to enter boot loader
for the OS with front panel switches on PDP-8 and PDP-11 to bootup the
system some time back. It required you convert octal code to binary on the
fly. Understanding boot process on that level made some people real men.

Boot (EE)PROMs are relatively new invention. Now, if you never booted
computer with entering octal or hex code using toggle switches you are not
a real man.

..................
> > -rw-r--r--    1 root     root         1495 Jan 29 13:28 ifup-ipv6
> > 
> > Just look at stupid permissions! Files are "sourced" into scripts not
> > executed in reality so -rwxr-xr-x for /etc/sysconfig/network is a joke.
> > [1]
> 
> I simply have _no_ idea why you're apparently taking me to task over
> RedHat's fallacies.

I did not. It's only your imagination.

> 
> (more crap that has nothing to do with anything i've said deleted)
> 

It's known that Rick and I have disagreements on occassion but do smile
at each other at the meeting or installfest. However, I do not understand
what bite your ass to attack both of us in one sentence.

You are welcome to filter out my email. Stick it into your favorite place

/etc/sysconfig

Make sure it's broken into separate files and subdirectories, one for Rick
and one for me. Good luck.

My last word on this thread.

   O__  ---- Rafael Skodlar
  c/ /'_ --- Linux Imagineer since 1994
 (*) \(*) -- There is a tunnel at the end of light.