[svlug] Declining to "eat your own dog food" (was: Maximum Linux dead)

[Rick Moen]

Following is a discussion between Pater Jay Salzman of LUGOD and Hoyt
Duff of (it seems) Maximum Linux magazine, forwarded with permission.
It seems that Daevid wasn't the only Microsoft booster among 
Maximum Linux's folk.

One is tempted to point out obvious Linux tools that Duff has evidently
somehow missed, such as fetchmail, procmail/mailfilter, Mutt, KMail,
Mahogany, Balsa, and Spruce.  But it seems likely that Duff will
consider only a do-everything monolithic program that emulates MS
Outlook Express precisely.  In other words, he basically insists on an
all-Microsoft environment.

I'm sorry to see that magazine fold, but this apparent technophobia
is almost equally lamentable.




From: Peter Jay Salzman <p at dirac.org>
To: Hoyt <hduff2 at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Farewell

Just wanted to say that a lot of these farewell to Maximum Linux
magazine messages have been sent via MSN Explorer, MS Outlook, MS this
and MS that.  It was a little depressing, considering the crowd we have
here.

Didn't want to start a thread, but I'd like to understand why.  perhaps
I can start work on an open source project to fill a hole.  There ARE a
few holes in the open source community.  We need a free Fortran 90
compiler.  We need a more mature set of advanced audio editing software.
Stuff like that.

Don't want to sound like a bible-thumping zealot, but if anyone here
uses Microsoft products because there's something missing about Linux,
could you e-mail me and let me know?  I PROMISE I won't e-mail you back
and try to convince you why you're wrong.  I simply want to know what's
missing from Linux.  I simply would like to think about your answers,
not respond to them.




From: Hoyt <hduff2 at worldnet.att.net>
To: Peter Jay Salzman <p at dirac.org>
Subject: Re: Farewell

Peter,

I use MSOE frequently because it handles multiple e-mail accounts (from
three different ISP's, including my spam-filled Hotmail accounts), has
lovely filters, and deals well with that HTML mail I always seem to get
from my friends.  I've never had a problem with viruses.  But you know
what it doesn't handle well?  Mutt.  Your message is displayed to me as
an attachment.  I don't think Bill will be fixing that any time soon,
though. 

I also use MSOE because it's what is installed on my gaming box, the
only computer in my house not in a constant state of flux.  That allows
me to receive and respond to e-mail no matter what the state of my other
hardware/software is.  This gives me a little stability; e-mail is
always available.  My Linux box is always "in-between" for testing or
evaluation.

I also haven't found a Linux mail client that provides all the features
and ease of use that MSOE provides, besides the fact that I am familiar
with the interface and don't care to learn another.

So, give me an adequate mail client and another dedicated box, and I'm
willing to change when the momentum is there for me to actually do it.
I have no binding desire for MS, nor any religious beliefs in Linux; I
will use what tool serves me best.

But it bothers me that you would not only take the time to check the 
mail client of the e-mail you received, but then publicly comment on it.
You don't come across sounding like a Bible-thumping zealot, just an OS
bigot, although I'm sure that wasn't your intent.  A fundamental tenant
of Free Software and Open Source is choice.  Should I surrender or
restrict my choice to make you happy?  I don't think so and I don't
believe you think I should.

By all means develop a Linux e-mail client.  But don't settle for making
it "as good as". Make something that is so far superior, it becomes a
no-brainer.  Just don't expect those pine dudes to ever give it up.

Hoyt

> XMailer: I USE MUTT




From: Peter Jay Salzman <p at dirac.org>
To: Hoyt <hduff2 at worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Farewell

Hoyt,

I said that I was looking for people's comments, and not to look at
gaining 'converts'.  Which is true.

Since the overall tone in your e-mail was a bit different from the
others, I will point out that your email seems defensive, so let me try
to explain:

What surprises me wasn't the fact that people use MS; most of the world
does.  What surprised me is that writers and editors of a Linux magazine
would choose to use MS.

It seems insincere.  Ironic.

I don't know what your association with Maximum Linux was, but, IMHO, a
Linux magazine with writers and editors who use MS is doomed to failure.
It's like trying to sell oranges with a sign on your store that says
"oranges suck".

If you noticed what mail client I use by the words "I USE MUTT", then
you see what I see when I read your email.  I don't need to "take time"
to check your e-mail client.  (I'm getting a PhD in physics.  I don't
have the time to check details like that out.)  I simply saw it.

Sorry to put you on the defensive.  Of course, you are free to use the
OS of your choice.  *I* would never go back to Microsoft.  Linux is the
best OS for me.  But I do realize it's not for everyone.

Pete