[svlug] [OT] Joke

Jan-Albert Venter JAVenter at africon.co.za
Wed May 17 00:07:08 PDT 2000

Most of you know by now that I am a white Afrikaans speaking South-African.
Which leaves this discussion very much in my field of personall experience.
I just turned 20. I was blissfully unaware of the Angola war until 3 years
after it ended, (I was 16 when somebody first bothered to tell me about it.
Ere that I had often wondered why everybody I knew was in the army at some
point or another) 
Yes ignorance is a pillarstone of fasizm (and I do believe my preceding
generation was doing just that) the goverment lied to them, and they lied to
However I refuse to ever feel guilty or appologize, I was not ever
advantaged by appartheid, if anything I suffered under affirmative action
(Black people who have fewer qualifications and less experience earn
litterally double my salary) without ever doing anything to deserve it. I
have been a liberall for as long as I knew what a liberall was, and as a
liberall person I have to say that 'PC', Hate Speech etc. is nothing other
that fasizm itself. The only thing that's changed is the oppressor and the
oppressed are different. We saw in South-Africa, how freedomn of speech
became constitutionall, then we saw the censors come right back less than
two years later, and we can't do anything about it. 
Sorry, this e-mail is getting long, but I live with terms like 'whitey',
'redneck', 'amagati' (evil sourcerer) etc. because I believe in the wielder
of those word's right to an opinion of his own, however unfair it may be, it
is his right, all I ask is that same right. And I believe that everyone who
complained about that joke should wonder, was I not attempting to force my
idea's on to someone. Those who told and protected it however should be
asking the same thing of themselves. 
Finally, I don't use terms like 'kaffer' because I do not wish to offend,
but I refuse to believe that it is not my right to use the term should I
ever want to. I leave it at that.

A.J. Venter
427-2537 E103
"I know not with what weapons they will fight world war III but world war IV
will be thought with sticks and stones": Robert Heinlein, The Puppetmasters.

-----Original Message-----
From: Robert L. Harris [mailto:Robert.L.Harris at rnd-consulting.com]
Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2000 8:02 PM
To: Derek J. Balling
Cc: Ray Olszewski; Ivan Passos; svlug at svlug.org
Subject: Re: [svlug] [OT] Joke

This is it itself.  I've seen the exact same thing.  A good friend who
is gay, jokes with other non-gay friends of mine, and calls them fags and

Fag used to have a different meaning, just like queer.  People associate 
meanings.  Too many people take those meanings and get offended, wether
they should or not, and usually not.  Should I be offended if called
Should I really care?  Should all the PC crap just be flushed down the
and every just get a life and worry about real things like crime, hunger
and how you're going to survive tomorroe?  Probably.  It's scary when you
see on the news that a 4yr old was hit by a hit and run driver, and it
gets a 30sec sound byte on the news, but the ILOVEYOU bug gets 15mins and
people get overly antagonistic about crap like this PC stuff.  

If you don't like something someone says, and you ask them not to say
it again, and they don't offer to stop, don't make an issue, just use
procmail and delete anything that person sends.


Thus spake Derek J. Balling (dredd at megacity.org):

> OK, since we're going to turn an innocent joke into a political statement.
> I've seen - first-hand - black people call each other "nigger". If I do
> and I'm white, I'm racist.
> I've seen - first-hand - gay people call each other "fag". If I do it, and

> I'm straight, I'm a homophobe.
> In other words.. I think "lighten up" is in order. :)
> D
> At 10:32 AM 5/16/00 -0700, Ray Olszewski wrote:
> >I hope I am not the only member of the SVLUG list offended by this
> >Or do we quietly accept this use of an offensive term for gays?
> >
> >At 10:01 AM 5/16/00 -0700, Ivan Passos wrote:
> > >
> > >First day of class. ...
> >[rest deleted]
> >
> >------------------------------------"Never tell me the odds!"---
> >Ray Olszewski                                        -- Han Solo
> >Palo Alto, CA                                    ray at comarre.com
> >----------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >svlug mailing list
> >svlug at lists.svlug.org
> >http://lists.svlug.org/mailman/listinfo/svlug
> _______________________________________________
> svlug mailing list
> svlug at lists.svlug.org
> http://lists.svlug.org/mailman/listinfo/svlug

Robert L. Harris                |  Microso~1 :  
Senior System Engineer          |    For when quality, reliability 
  at RnD Consulting             |      and security just aren't
                                \_       that important!
      These are MY OPINIONS ALONE.  I speak for no-one else.
 perl -e 'print $i=pack(c5,(41*2),sqrt(7056),(unpack(c,H)-2),oct(115),10);'

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