[svlug] Stupid /boot question

[Seth David Schoen]

Javilk writes:

> > So why can't we all just get along?
> 
>      Because your earlier statement was phrased so as to appear to be an
> attack upon the fundamental property rights of this society; rights which
> enable many of us to earn a living.  In short, you appeared to advocate
> theft, which is a form of NOT getting along.

The entities that define and enforce "intellectual property rights"
don't call violating them "theft".  They typically don't even call
intellectual property "property", and they typically take much
narrower views of what the whole undertaking is about.

In American law, copyright is a limited-time privilege granted by the
government in order to advance a particular public-policy objective
("promot[ing] the progress..." of similar works).  It is _not_ legally
the same as physical private property.

http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/words-to-avoid.html#theft

http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/ch5.html

>      Had you used the more specific "loan you my [physical] copy", the
> specific thing you have ownership rights to, vs "give you a copy",

Well, some IP law allows copyright holders to restrict lending.

Federal copyright law says that ownership of a physical copy is
distinct from ownership of information:

http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/202.html

But of course people who don't believe that information can be owned
do not recognize this distinction.

>     Your attempts to justify yourself further implied you did not respect
> the fundamental rights of this society, and further made it appear that
> this organization might be subversive of those rights.  

The right to make fundamental criticisms of a society is one of the most
fundamental rights possible.

A subversive organization?  Oh, no!

It is understandable that SVLUG would not want its list to be used for
organizing or advertising the violation of copyright law.  On the
other hand, your response seems to be that it is bad or dangerous to
suggest that one disbelieves in the legitimacy of intellectual
property legislation in general.

Many people who disbelieve in IP still don't make a habit of violating
IP laws all the time -- for various other reasons.  This is roughly
the position of the Free Software Foundation, for example.  But your
reaction, as I said, seems not to be so much to the particular offer
of making an illegal copy (by someone who apparently did not know it
was illegal) as to the _belief_ that making illegal copies is not
necessarily morally reprehensible.

>      The concept of copyright dates back to at least the 1600's.

A newcomer; an upstart. :-)

> Property
> (or territory) rights are genetic to humans, many animals, even some
> insects.

Certainly genetics has fairly little to do with the modern political
structure of private property rights.  And claiming IPR in information
is a very new concept indeed.  For many thousands of years,
information was in the public domain, even well into the history of
what most people would call modern civilization.  Most of the great
epics in history were composed without copyright.

In the 1600s and 1700s, many political philosophers recognized the
idea of IP as itself an invention, made up by governments for
practical purposes, and not naturally existing.  Sure, the definition
of physical property is not always clear-cut -- but the definition of
the nature and scope of intellectual property is infinitely worse, and
requires all sorts of essentially arbitrary political decisions.

> Although one may question those rights,
> it is not wise to even appear to advocate their destruction.

I know lots of people who consider even physical property rights a
usurpation and an abomination.  I think they are mistaken, but I can't
understand why their advocacy is "unwise", considering that they
believe in their position, unless wisdom implies infallibility.

-- 
Seth David Schoen <schoen at loyalty.org>  | And do not say, I will study when I
     http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/    | have leisure; for perhaps you will
     http://www.loyalty.org/   (CAF)    | not have leisure.  -- Pirke Avot 2:5

--
echo "unsubscribe svlug" | mail majordomo at svlug.org
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ to unsubscribe
see http://www.svlug.org/mdstuff/lists.shtml for posting guidelines.