[svlug] Russian programmers (getting way off topic....)
javilk at polly.mall-net.com
Fri Sep 25 03:13:13 PDT 1998
> Customs and the INS are inherently evil: the exceptions being with
> regards to agricultural pests, and preventing criminal flight. These exceptions
> do not justify their cost to society.
We are each entitled to our own opinions. It is through the
discussion of these opinions that learning occurs. My objections are two
fold. One is our own labor force, the other is the needs of THEIR country
to retain those future business and intellectual leaders for their own
It is not without much discussions with others that I have come up
with this opinion. As a hyphenated American, I have had considerable
discussion about how to help my own newly independent ancestral nation. In
fact, I was part of a small international task force regarding such
matters. Many members of that task force moved back to their ancestral
nations to help their homelands grasp what to do with freedom. Some went
temporarily, others... let us say not all stayed as intended, and not all
came back as intended. Some participated in high levels of their
governments, others went as entrepreneurs. I have heard their hardships.
They did not do it for themselves, that is for sure! Had I been healthy,
I would have gone for a while as well. I could have claimed a fair bit of
property that had been expropriated from my wealthy Grandfather and his
We solve nothing by taking the best of their nation; we only make
matters worse. We need to help their best help their own nation, and
spread the benefits of their minds and muscles over there, where it is
needed far more than here! And we DO need to help!
> No one has any right to lock another out of participating in our society so
> as to support the cost of his own labor. That is simply evil, and such
> social lockout is the focus of every major social movement in our history.
> 200 years ago it was the nobility and the British merchant societies, then
> it was the blacks, now it is immigrants, and soon it will be those denied
> access to source code.
Since when has our society allowed all of our own people to support
themselves with their own labor? I guess you have never been laid off. I
guess you have never had to spend half a year on the unemployment lines
back on the East Coast. I guess you were fully employed here during the
recent recession, when California started paying its own workers IOU's.
Well my friend, some of my more skilled and more capable friends spent
three and five years knocking on company doors trying to regain even
lesser employment than they had. I helped them as I could. I too, was
out of work at times. I suppose you would just call the personal tragedies
of my friends "unfortunate", because you were not unemployed yourself.
Corporations do not welcome everyone, particularly not back East of
those with a history of entrepreneurialism! Even here, corporations do
not want those who seem too capable, or older. I know, because as a
consultant, I have to market myself several times a year. As one grows
older and more able, people become afraid that the older more capable
worker will make them look not as clever. I am sorry to say, but I have
seen it myself many times... as have all of my older friends...
Another point is that There is a limited ability for any society to
accept immigration without displacing those who already are. When that
point is reached, there is exploitation on both sides of many daily
transactions, the formation of cabalistic societies, etc. I know, because
I have seen some of these as an immigrant family's son. But certainly,
the sweat shops of the garment industry, as well as many other situations
are known to you. Oh, it does not apply, this is just the software
industry, where... what is it, many of my friends have been recently
unemployed, and have had to accept lesser jobs at lesser rates? Rates
have fallen, and are only now beginning to move up again. We have not
recovered all the way. And again, we are in an economic down turn, or so
When immigration is slower, people are more polite, and there is
more to share. It is our ability to share, that is America's greatest
asset. But that only happens amongst those who grow up with enough that
sharing is not a pathological weakness. As I have seen... And that
little lesson nearly cost me my life. But I am sure you do not consider
that little bit important. America is not infinite, you know. Nor are
all people raised to share.
> The statue of liberty should be sold for scrap. It is pure hypocrisy to keep it
> around with our current immigration policies.
That statue is considered near Holy by many people. My parents and I
among them. Yes, I know what the plaque says. Nor do I dispute it. What
I dispute is the tide, and the results on both sides of the national
boundary. Wisdom first.
The real solution lies not over here, but in helping them improve
their society OVER THERE!
Where does wealth come from, my friend? Is it not from our natural
resources as molded by our intellect and muscle? What if we take the
better ones from their nation? Who then, will supply that intellect and
We can help only a small portion of them by inviting them here, and
our expense. We can help MANY MORE by helping them help themselves OVER
THERE. That way, BOTH sides will come out MUCH further ahead.
WE CAN HELP THEM! We can help by exchanging things, by showing them
culture, donating some equipment, books about technical and cultural
matters, entrepreneurialism, business, etc. Particularly about business
and entrepreneurial matters!
Believe me, I am not opposed to helping! I believe the ONLY way we
can prevent future conflicts is by helping them rebuild their country. We
must help fan the flames of entrepreneurialism over there, help people
start businesses which are more oriented towards helping them satisfy
their internal needs, not so much by exporting their raw materials or
labor, but developing their own internal economy to deal with their own
extreme internal needs.
But if we drain their most intelligent and capable people from their
land, who is left? Stupid people who believe in what hot heads like
Zirinovsky and the like advocate. Hitler rose to power only because of
hard economic times. FUD is a very effective political marketing tool!
Even more so than in business!
I've stood where you stood. I am older now. I have seen the cost of
ill conceived plans, and the benefits of well conceived plans. And have
discussed these kinds of things at length with my own Hyphenated American
community regarding the old country.
It is not a simple or easy subject. I do not know of the specific
ways we may help them. But in general, we must help them fan the flames
of a free economy by helping them start businesses over there to encourage
the conversion of their natural resources into the things they need, via
their own skills and labor. That was, in large part, what the success of
Post war Japan and Europe was all about -- their labor, their raw
materials. And they were so much the worse for the loss of so many of the
skilled intelligentsia, both via immigration to the USA, and due to
genocidal policies of ego-maniac leaders followed by people to scared and
too hungry to think. Let us try to help them from becoming to hungry over
> > Think about the consequences of what you are doing, for in the end,
> > you will end up done to as you did to others.
- javilk at mall-net.com -----------------------------
-------- MS asks "Where do you want to go?" -------
------- Linux asks "What do you want to do?" ------
-- It is doers, not goers, who built this world! --
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