[svlug] RPM

[Rafael Skodlar]

On 13 Sep 1998, Marc MERLIN wrote:

> On 12 Sep 1998 12:23:49 -0700, Rafael Skodlar <raffi at kset.com> wrote:
> >> But Rob is right, you should be able to do so.
> >> Let me give 2 examples:
> >> - gpm doesn't know about the wheel on my mouse, and X won't start if gpm
> >>   is still running (it's not my case, but it can happen).
> >
> >Never seen that problem. Did have a problem with mgetty trying to run on
> >the same port as gpm. I had to make a change in inittab not rc scripts
> >and run gpm manualy when needed. That's very rarely these days. Very few
> >people configure systems without X these days. I do use gpm on my laptop
> >though.
> 
> As stated, I never said that it's common, I was just giving an example

I can come up with many examples that have no meaning or
relevance to the matter whatsoever.

> 
> >>   Then, I just tell runlevel 5 to kill gpm and start xdm
> >> - You want to run a very lightweight web server in runlevel 2, and a better
> >>   one in runlever 3.
> >
> >No I don't want to run a silly lightweight web server in runlevel 2. I use
> >systems in a real world where you turn on the machine, install from the
> >CD, configure, reboot and leave it alone for weeks or months at the time. 
> >So you either run real server all the time or none at all. If you are a
> >developer, and that's a minority then you might have a different situation
> >with this switching. I doubt it. Why fiddle with web servers when you have
> >Apache? Embedded systems perhaps?
> 
> You're completely missing the point here. It's not because _you_ don't need
> it that the capability should'nt be there.

I didn't say that the capability should be taken away.

> As far as I'm concerned, something is never too flexible (sendmail might be
> an exception though :-D)
> 
> >Anything else is just playing and horsing around.
> 
> Thank you very much for us.
> 
> >Can't afford to play with run levels runing DNS etc.
> 
> Yes you can. You just ocnfigure DNS to run from runlevels 2 to 5.
> 

Yeah, right. Run DNS in level 2. I want it in level 3. Important servers
should not be setup to go to level 5 during bootup. What if you
have any problems? To repair server you are much better to run in text
mode and in lower level then use startx to go to X if you use the machine
as a workstation at the same time.

> 
> Since you  seem to be  completely missing the  point, I'll give  you another
> example:
> I need to go in single user mode to  remount /var as R/O and run fsck on it.
> I do init  1, run fsck, and then do  init 3 (or 2, or 5). There  is no clean
> way to do that without Sys V init scripts.

Why a heck one would do that with /var? need var from the begining for
logs. Suppose you get email, where is sendmail going to write the log not
to mention syslog, spooler, and smb?

You don't run fsck on mounted partitions! It's always done on partitions
before mount! Besides if you run it manualy you get a message:
Parallelizing fsck version 1.10 (24-Apr-97)
e2fsck 1.10, 24-Apr-97 for EXT2 FS 0.5b, 95/08/09
/dev/hda1 is mounted.  Do you really want to continue (y/n)?

which means you may corrupt the file system.

> Short of saving your uptime, this can be very useful on a router if you make
> sure that /etc/rc.d/init.d/network is also active for runlevel 1.
> 

That's an argument. You never run network in level 1. If you do then all
your structure is unconventional and requires manual work. Your chkconfig
script won't take care of level 1 anyway (see man pages). You need one
level where nobody can login remotely. That's a single user only level.
That's the only time /var could be RO. I don't know why one would ever
want to have /var RO. /etc yes but not /var. 

Another example; you run a firewall and want to make changes. You go to a
single level, no network, make changes and go back to the level 2 or 3 if
you want to be relatively safe. 

> >I assumed (wrongly) that Linux runs startup scripts the same way Solaris
> >does. One level after the other. So OK, after single stage Linux jumps
> >into level 3 for example. I have no problem with gpm not runing if the
> >system is configured so. I always check all run levels during installation
> >and manualy remove crap (Novel service, innd, S45pcmcia, named, for
> >example) that's put there by RH default.
> 
> Not in 5.1, you can select at install time what you want. Besides, why do
> you even install those packages if you're not going to use them?

Most of the scripts are put there without asking. S45pcmcia and few others
definitely. Some of the stuff gets put there because of dependencies. DHCP
even though not necessarily used everywhere is definitely put ther as is
smb. 

> 
> >However, if you switch 2 daemons or want to reconfigure one then one
> >script should be enough to deal with it. Script needs to know which level
> >it's in and has to change (move/rename) the config file and kill -1 or
> >full kill with new start and -f new.conf or whatever.
> 
> Didn't understand a word you said...

For example you have 2 daemons, Apache and another home made httpd. You
can write one script to handle the start, kill or restart of either one
depending on the run level. That's what you wanted on the first place.

Why change run levels just to switch web servers? You'll affect other
things aswell.

> 
> >That's for GUI types. I don't like script deleting other scripts/links or
> >creating new ones.
> 
> Sorry but no. If you want GUI, you use the gui tool that is in the control
> panel. chkconfig is definitely a command line tool.

I know but it's a script for convenience.

> If you think there is glory in maintaining links by hand, go ahead, but as
> far as I'm concerned, I prefer to use a tool for this.
> 

Good for you.

> >I would argue that a script like that can make more damage than good if
> >you are not careful.
> 
> Ah? Just like the rm, mv, and ln commands then.

Not realy. If I rm the wrong link then I need to recreate it. If the
script does it it's more likely going to be a bunch of files or links.

> 
> >man chkconfig
> >......
> >       By  default,  the on and off options affect only runlevels
> >       3, 4, and 5, while reset affects  all  of  the  runlevels.
> >       The  --level option may be used to specify which runlevels
> >       are affected.....
> >
> >doesn't take care of other levels, 2 and 1. Second, the output in format 
> 
> Are doing this on purpose? That's what the --level parameter is for.
> 

You know it better than I do.

> >chkconfig --list
> >httpd 0:off 1:off 2:off 3:off 4:on 5:on 6:off
....
> >
> >is not easy readable.
> 
> It's meant to be used by scripts.
> Note that I don't use the on|off capatibility of chkconfig. What I do is
> change runlevels in rc.d scripts by editing the chkconfig line, and then run
> my script which in essence does chkconfig --del script chkconfig --add
> script
> 
> >What about /etc/rc.d/rc?.d structure?
> >
> >It's still not as good as the one in Irix.
> 
> Can't comment.

?

> 
> Marc 

   Rafael Skodlar


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