[svlug] Posting guidelines

[Rick Moen]

Quoting javilk at polly.mall-net.com (javilk at polly.mall-net.com):

> I will cite copyright LAW in this one.  AN author has a legal right
> to know and direct where text s/he has generated is going, depending upon
> the volume and nature of the use of the text.

That's all very well, but you're talking about someone _else's_ 
post.

> Law aside, it is also a courtesy.

It's a "courtesy" for someone to tell you everywhere else
that he's sending a chunk of his own text?  OK, that's 
a bizarre application of the concept, but you're entitled
to your view.

> Excuse me?  They may not have even HEARD of SVLUG, and may not have
> any interest in 90 percent of what we say. But if we send it to them,
> there is some presumption that there is relevance to their area of
> interest.

Your view, then, is that there's something wrong with having
to subscribe to a list, to get the list's posts.  Your view
is duly noted -- but I doubt that anyone's going to be impressed.

>>>      * Triggers spammage filters on mailing lists 
>> 
>> No reason why it should.
> 
> There are MANY ways that people with mailing lists try to
> eliminate spam.  That is one of them.

Then those filters are extremely badly designed, and broken.
They should be fixed.

>>>      * Triggers spammage filters on some private systems
>> 
>> No reason why it should.  If you're discarding mail bearing
>> the list address on the From line, maybe your filters are 
>> broken.

> Fetchmail complains about such mail, and I believe can be rigged to
> discard it.

I understand that you have _lots_ of problems with fetchmail.

> I have heard others discarding all blind copy mail.

People do many strange things.  Your point is...?

> Rick, much as I know you to be a nice guy, sometimes you rather
> obstinately show Zero respect for other people!

For a smart guy, you sometimes show zero inclination to understand
that disrespecting a statement is not at all the same as 
disrespecting the speaker.  Perhaps it's some bizarre drug
in the California water supply.

When somebody says something I consider dumb in alleged refutation 
of one of my own claims, I will very often _state_ that it was
a dumb argument, and why.  Those who insist on interpreting
this as a personal affront are missing the point entirely --
more often than not, I suspect, wilfully.

>> It's really simple, Javilk:  To receive list mail, it suffices to
>> join the list.  Then you get a copy of each and every list post.
>> That's the basic definition of "mailing list", you see.
>      
> Rick, last time I screwed up and dropped the list from the reply,
> then sent another copy of the reply to the list, you got Very Upset.  That
> is EXACTLY what the above operation would do.

Wrong.  You are very simply mistaken.  I'm not sure where the
misunderstanding lies, but the above is simply a misstatement
of fact.

> That is EXACTLY what happens to THE OTHER GUY who DOES NOT subscribe 
> to the list when you Bcc the list -- He or she DOES NOT have the 
> ability to reply to the whole group receiving that e-mail.

That's not a bug, that's a feature.

> He or she does not even KNOW who else received the e-mail.  

You have failed to identify a problem.

> You are therefore condoning the very actions most of us would
> consider utterly despicable if they were done to us!

Despicable?  

Waiter, may I have my reality check, please?

I don't have any idea what you're imagining that we're talking
about, but I strongly suspect it has zero connection to what
I addressed.

Here's an example:  I schedule a major Bay Area open-source event, 
and draft a three-paragraph announcement.  I'm a subscriber to the
SVLUG, BALUG, SCLUG, NBLUG, CABAL, CalLUG, CCSF LUG, SF Perl UG,
SF FreeBSD, BayLISA, and Hack-Pit lists, and intend to notify
all of them.

So I put all of them on the "To:" and "Cc:" lines, right? 
Wrong.  If I do that, it's almost inevitable that huge, 
rambling cross-posted discussions will ensue.  Maybe the
Linux and FreeBSD camps will start a nice, juicy flame-war,
and everyone will be mad at _me_.  So, I don't do that.
Instead, I put an innocuous address like "nobody" on the
"To:" line, and all those lists on the "Bcc:" one.

Now, you may or may not like that, but have I given anyone
cause for offence, let alone done anything "despicable"?
I bloody well don't think so.

> Protocols have been worked out in the real world for handling these
> things.  This is the only list with such abhorant use of To: and Cc: that
> I have encountered.  Now you wish to add an use of Bcc: which would have
> results which, if done to you, you have already DEMONSTRATED in private
> correspondence to me, that you consider abhorant and even arguably
> vindictive. 

You are in error, and are very likely confusing this with
taking a ongoing list discussion suddenly to private mail
without notice.  -=Obviously=-, I am talking about nothing 
even remotely like that.

> I suggest you show some respect and consideration for people on other
> lists by allowing them the courtesy of seeing who else has seen what they
> have been presented with, quoted on, etc., and allow them to reply.

[snip denying free speech, etc.]

Javilk, what the _hell_ are you talking about?

-- 
Cheers,                                  DISCLAIMER:  I didn't do it.    
Rick Moen                                You can't prove it.  Nobody
rick (at) hugin.imat.com                 saw me.  The sheep are lying.

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